Transcript: 32nd Ordinary Council Meeting

Leave of absence rules and apologies

00:10:40attendance. Councillors must attend each obligatory Section 79 and Council meeting of the Council and relevant committees. Unless they request for leave of absence at least 24 hours before the meeting or exceptional circumstances exist. And that

00:11:10request for leave of absence should be written should be written to the Speaker of Council. So I just want us to remember that rule. Thank you. We'll take We'll take for the last time uh leave of absence from the floor.

00:11:40Councillor Avant-Smith and then Councillor Helen Makhuba and then Councillor Mogapi and then Councillor Simonse and then Councillor Mofokeng. In that In that order. Thank you.

00:11:59Madam Speaker! This side.

00:12:02Oh, apologies. And then Councillor Harris at the back. And then Yoh! I can't see your name. Councillor from the ACDP. Ag, from Action SA. Apologies, ma'am. In that In that uh sequence. Thank you.

00:12:24Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you for your indulgence. Um we have Councillor Brand, Councillor Maila and Councillor Wax. Um Councillor Brand private business, Councillor Maila private business and uh Councillor Wax bereavement. We have a request that Councillor Reddy can leave uh between 12:30 and 2:00 p.m. for a funeral. And then Councillor Mark Van Der Merwe will leave at 4:00.

00:12:55Um Councillor Santana at 3:00 and Councillor Goosen at 5:00. Thank you very much.

00:13:04The next councillor.

00:13:07Thank you, Speaker. From the IFP, Councillor Mkhize private business. Thank you.

00:13:18Thank you, Speaker. From the EFF, it's Councillor Mosehla ill health, and Nethamba arriving late. Thank you.

00:13:30Good morning, Madam Speaker. Councillor Duwayne Ponsonby on council business, and Councillor Deppe is dealing with an emergency in her ward. Thank you.

00:13:46Eh, good morning, Speaker. Uh, Councillor Dada Morero will arrive late. Councillor, uh, Mbambala will also arrive late. Councillor Kwapeng requests to leave earlier by 3:00, because of the family bereavement. And Councillor Mofokeng to request to leave at 3:00. Thank you.

00:14:07Councillor Harris.

00:14:10Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. Good morning to everybody. Can you please excuse Councillor Mkhonza at 4:00, he has to go to party business. Thank you.

00:14:22Councillor from ActionSA.

00:14:28Um, good morning, Speaker. Leave of absence from ActionSA, Councillor Mabunda, party business. Councillor Mokoka, party business. Councillor Zwane, party business. Councillor Ngwetsheni, party business, and Councillor Mposula, party business. And the late arrival, Councillor Mchunu, Councillor Lebatlang, Councillor Ntshidi, Councillor Masoga, and Councillor Nyaqela.

00:14:58And Councillor Shumba asked to leave early, around 12:00. Thank you, Speaker.

00:15:13Are these apologies noted?

00:15:21And I I want to ask that we all look at our calendars that we all approved in council. So if we have party business, then we do the party business outside of the council calendar. Thank you, colleagues.

00:15:41We now move to official notices.

Diepsloot youth turned away over proof of residence and councillor recognition

00:15:47Yes, Councillor, apologies.

00:15:50Oh, thank you very much, uh Speaker. Speaker, uh I'm requesting for your

00:16:05IT, can we check the mic?

00:16:06Okay. No, thank you very much, Speaker. I'm requesting for your intervention, Speaker. Uh there are young people from Diepsloot who were invited for physical assessments by JMPD. As we speak, they are there, Speaker. Unfortunately, officers there are turning them are turning them back. Reason being, they're having a proof of res that was signed by Councillor Maake, and officers there are sayingclaim

00:16:39Councillor Maake is not being recognized in Region A. So, young people are currently frustrated. I even texted Chief of uh JMPD. Unfortunately, he didn't get back to me.

00:16:56SesothoO m-bluetick-ile fela, Speaker.

00:16:58So, please, assist in the matter, uh Speaker. Because of those young people are from Diepsloot and I know them.

00:17:05Thank you, Councillor.

00:17:06Thank you very much.

00:17:08Councillors, on that matter, it's an executive matter. And secondly, I've had reports that councillors are interfering with the process. So, we cannot allow that. I've seen many councillors that has gone there and I did get a report from the from from JMPD

00:17:38that they are unable to do their work, that councillors are interfering. We will have a discussion with the executive as to what is happening there. I cannot deal with the issue currently. Thank you, Councillor. Can we close the matter? Chair of Chairs?

00:18:00No, thank you very much, Speaker. And with all due respect, I would want to request that the matter raised by the councillor in Region A, in particular, not the matter of interference, in particular the matter that says he is not recognized as a councillor, that is a matter you should address and I would want to request at least so that at least we can be appraised with the matter as a caucus. Can we have a 10 minutes break?

00:18:30So we deal with that matter. Thank you. Thank you, Speaker.

00:18:32Okay. We will also We will also look at how the councillor is not recognized into into the issue how Councillor Belinda, I have seen your hand. We will We will look into the matter as to how he is not recognized. And but as I said, it is an executive matter uh that we need to deal with.

00:19:00Um and and yeah, just just hold on for that um Chair of Chairs. Councillor Belinda? I know you've asked for a 10-minute break. Let me just listen to Councillor Belinda.

00:19:13Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you so much for the opportunity. Madam Speaker, I just want to say, as we're talking about the issue of councillors not being recognized, I would also like you, and I want I'm raising it here in council, the fact that uh proof of residences are being issued by PR councillors impersonating ward councillors. Please can I request that you also look at that? Look at that.

00:19:40Colleagues. Colleagues. Colleagues. Colleagues. No, no, no. Colleagues. Colleagues, we've given every I'm not going to take any other hands. We've given everybody a chance to speak.

00:19:59Seerane. Councillor Seerane. Councillor Seerane, I've seen your hand. Madam Can the caucus leaders please speak to their to their caucus members? Councillor Seerane, I've seen your hand. I want Councillor Belinda to finish, and then I will recognize him. Otherwise, I We cannot deal with issues if we cannot hear the issues.

00:20:30Madam

00:20:32No, no, no, councillors. Can we respect each other? You are live.

00:20:38Madam Speaker, if I can just clarify why I'm raising this issue. There are Yesterday I was intimidated. I was intimidated by construction mafia because of proof of residences that was not issued by me, but by a councillor, a councillor that is a PR councillor deployed. We don't have a problem with PR councillors doing their party work.

00:21:06Okay, Councillor Belinda.

00:21:07I'm just saying I'm just saying it puts ward councillors' lives at risk. So please, on that point, please raise it as well.

00:21:13Councillor Belinda, we are going to ask that you formally write so that we are able to look into it. Councillor Seerane, you are the last one.

00:21:27Thank you very much, Speaker. Speaker, uh what Councillor Julius has raised here, it didn't happen to him only. Even our own Even the people from Ivory Park that we gave them proof of res, they've been turned back for the very same reason. It got nothing to do with him not being recognized. All of us, even myself, those that I gave proof of res, they've been turned back for that reason. And second to that, we're not going to be bullied with a ward councillor and a PR councillor here. If ward If ward councillors

00:21:58So So, Speaker, if ward councillors they have to they want to have their own uh council sitting, they must sit this side, PR councillors will sit. We are all councillors of City of Johannesburg here.

00:22:17Thank you, Councillor Seerane. Colleagues. Colleagues. We are all violating the code of conduct here.

Ten-minute caucus break and ANC report back

00:22:33Colleagues, we are done. The Chair of Chairs has asked for a 10-minute break. We are giving the Chair of Chairs the 10-minute break. Chair of Chairs, thank you. You should be back at 20 to.

00:41:06Colleagues, can we settle down? Our 10 minutes has passed. Is the Chief Whip here to report back?

00:42:19Colleagues, can we settle? The Chair of Chairs is here. MMC Human Settlements, Chair of of DOD, uh Councillor from DA. Councillor Schay.

00:42:44MMC Human Settlements. Hey, the handshake. Chair of Chairs, you can report back to us. Thank you.

00:43:05IT, can you check the mic, please? If there are any mics on, please switch it off.

00:43:11No, it's it's back online uh, honorable Speaker. I rise to inform council that the caucus of the African National Congress has looked into the matter and was satisfied that the executive is aware of what is happening and that they are actually trying to remedy the situation. And we also um are happy that you are looking into a matter where councilors are said to be not recognized. Uh thank you very much.

00:43:44Thank you so much, Chair of Chairs, so we continue. We were, yeah.

00:43:50Yeah, we are now on official notices.

Official notices: birthdays and new councillors

00:43:54Councilors, please join me in wishing all councilors who are celebrating their birthdays during the month of August. And I would further like to welcome the following new councilors: Councilor Liam Jacobs from the PA.

00:44:13Councilor Liam Jacobs from the PA, who replaced former Councilor Kunene. Can you stand for us, please?

00:44:25Thank you, Councilor Jacobs. I would also like to welcome Councilor Bulelani Ntlemeza from ActionSA, who replaced former Councilor Nobuhle. You you are welcome, Councilor.

Statement by the Executive Mayor

00:45:08We're now on the statement by the Executive Mayor.

00:45:13Thank you, councilors. The Mayor has tendered an apology that he will be late. We'll go to the we'll go to the next item.

Confirmation of minutes

00:45:24Item four is confirmation of minutes, and these are minutes of the seventh special meeting held on the 25th of June, 2025, right together with the minutes of the 31st um sorry, the 31st ordinary council meeting held on the 25th of June 2025. Also, the minutes of the 41st extraordinary meeting held on the 3rd of July, 2025, together with also the minutes of the eighth special council meeting held on the 30th of July, 2025.

00:45:57And lastly, with the minutes of the 42nd extraordinary council meeting held on the 30 and the 31st of July 2025.

00:46:07Thank you, um STC. We have a Councilor C. Fourie-Shawe from the DA.

00:46:19Thank you, Madam Speaker. The DA agrees with the minutes, and we thank you for the three additional um recommendations that were included in the minutes as uh council approved. Thank you.

00:46:30Thank you. Uh we then have ACDP, Councilor N. Mkhonza.

00:46:40Uh shalom, shalom, Madam Speaker, and greetings to all the councilors present and all our visitors.

00:46:48Councilor, can you please speak into your mic? We can't hear you.

00:46:51Okay, Madam Speaker. Can you hear me now? Thank you very much.

00:46:55Yes.

00:46:56Yes, I was just saying um greetings to you, Madam Speaker, and all the councilors and our visitors. Um the the ACDP agrees with the minutes. However, we made some notes, and we forwarded all the proposed amendments to Patience. Thank you very much.

00:47:19Councilor Mkhonza, can you please indicate those amendments so when we approve, we approve with the amendments and tell us on which minutes.claim

00:47:35It's okay, Madam Speaker. Let me go to them because I wanted to save some time, but it's okay. We'll go to them.

00:47:50Okay, Madam Speaker, on the 25th of June, the seventh special council meeting, page 9, last paragraph, we replace uh pressures with precious. And then page 11 of paragraph 5, we replace save with serve. On page 14, on paragraph 2, we remove assigned. On page 14, paragraph 4, we replace as, AS, with is, IS.

00:48:23And then on the second on the same 25th, that it was the 31st ordinary council meeting, all in order. The third set, the 3rd of July, 41st extraordinary, page 12, paragraph 2, the there must be one word because there it appears the T is away from the HE, so just to fix that. The fourth one, the 30th of July, 2025,

00:48:53the eighth special council meeting, page 14, paragraph uh 4, we replace Moreno with Morero. And then the 30 30th and the 31st July 2025, 42nd extraordinary meeting, um we are saying all in order. Shalom, shalom.claim

00:49:21Thank you, Councilor Mkhonza. Are the minutes confirmed with the amendments? Can we confirm the minutes? Uh okay, there's a hand, Councilor Boer.

00:49:37AfrikaansMôre, Mevrou die Speaker.

00:49:38Good morning, councilors. Um sorry, I wasn't on the speaker's list for the minutes, but I discovered on the minutes of the special council meeting, the seventh special council meeting on the 25th of June, um I was glad glad to see that uh Councilor Nkokou uh was converted because he is indicated as belonging to the ACDP. Uh uh and the same on page That was on page 13, and the same on page 16. Um

00:50:09Madam Speaker, it's also seems to me that you are converted because you're also indicated belonging to the ACDP. Thank you.

00:50:19I have no intention. Thank you. Can we can we then approve the minutes with the um amendments? Thank you, colleagues.

Oral questions: speaker's list confusion over Slovo Park question

00:50:36We proceed with the fifth item, and those are questions for oral reply of which notice has been given in terms of rule 105, subsection 1 of the Standing Rules and Orders of Council.

00:50:49Thank you, councilors. We start off with uh with Councilor Mosehla from the EFF.

00:50:59Is Councilor Mosehla not in the house?

00:51:05Uh Speaker.

00:51:13Councilor, thank you.

00:51:15Yeah. Um I'm taking the question on behalf of Councilor Mosehla.

00:51:20So, can you ask the question, Councilor?

00:51:22Thank you very much. Uh uh I, Councilor D. Dladla, to ask the MMC for Human Settlements the following question for oral reply in terms of rule 105(1), Standing Rules and Orders of the Council. Residents of Slovo Park informal settlement in Region G successfully took the City of Johannesburg to court, compelling the city to implement its

00:51:51situ in-situ development of their area. However, since the ruling, the community has been subjected to the prolonged delays, the numerous meetings across all spheres

00:52:03Just hold on, just hold on, Councilor, Councilor. There's a confusion here at the table. Councilor Christians, you wanted to ask say something? Well, I think we are going to fix what you are going to ask. Councilor Dladla, you are not allowed to ask the question of Councilor Mosehla.

00:52:21Thank you very much.

00:52:21There was a confusion at the table.

00:52:23We are just happy that you allowed us to put the question.

00:52:25No, no, you can be seated. You can be seated.

Oral question on formalisation of Kapok informal settlement

00:52:36I will call you as per the speaker's list. Okay. Councilor Dladla, your chance. There's your chance. Councilor Dladla.

00:52:48No, thank you very much again, uh Speaker. Greeting to you, the caucus leader of the EFF, Commissar MMC Mgcina, our hardworking MMC Ennie Makhafola, the most disciplined chairperson of MPAC, Councilor Raseruthe.

00:53:04isiZuluNgibingelele nabahlali baseKapok informal settlement in Region G, our residents from Kapok informal settlement on the gallery, ubaba uSiyela nobaba uDlangamandla. Siyanibingelela bobaba, siyazi ukuthi asilutho ngaphandle kwenu.

00:53:20MMC Mabaso, I was I want also to extend the greetings from the people of Kapok, in particular the following: Mam' Nositha Velo, stand number K16; Nkululeko Nzuza, stand 308; Nongazi Jack, K38; Jonas Maseko, 67; Nongazi Jack, K38, who have Nongalo has been residing in this informal settlement for over 50 years. And I can tell you thatclaim

00:53:50all these residents, they've got they've got a combined experience of living there of over 245 years um in that area. MMC and Speaker, I can tell you as well, without any fear of contradiction, that all these people are South Africans, and I can confirm even before you that even if you do enumeration of the settlement, you will discover that an overwhelming number of these residents are South Africans, and most are voters of Kapok VD and are equal distributors to our tax collection.claim

00:54:24Speaker, I then move to the question. I, Councilor Dladla, from the EFF, hereby ask the MMC for Human Settlements the following question for oral oral reply in terms of rule 105, in bracket 1, Standing Rules and Orders of the Council. Kapok informal settlement is located in south of Johannesburg and uh is housing housing residents forclaim

00:54:55uh since 1964, somewhere about that that time. Despite having basic infrastructure, including water supply, street lighting infrastructure, and uniform toilet structures, the settlement remains informal and and partially serviced. Therefore, the question is: Why has the people of Kapok settlement, despite this long history and basic infrastructure, not been formalized?claim

00:55:23Number two, why has the city only provided partial services to this community having um occupied this area for that long? I thank you, Speaker.claim

00:55:36Thank you, Councilor uh Dladla. Can we have the MMC of Human Settlements responding? MMC Mabaso.

00:55:48Uh thank you very much, uh Speaker. Greetings to yourself, um the members of the mayoral committee present, the Chair of Chairs, um all the colleagues uh that are present in the meeting, um our guests at the gallery. Um Speaker, I the department had um made attempts to develop Kapokclaim

00:56:17um from an informal settlement into a formalized township. Unfortunately, the planning processes uh triggered environmental authorization, and the project was then not supported by GDARD because of the environmental constraints. Um and that's why then the department took a decision thatclaim

00:56:49the residents of Kapok uh must then be relocated. Uh Roodepoort Farm was then identified um as a project where the residents of Kapok will be relocated. So, we did introduce a contractor uh for the township establishment and the installation of services at Roodepoort Farm. Contractors are currently on site, and upon completion, um we will then commence the process of relocatingclaim

00:57:20the residents of Kapok uh into Roodepoort Farm. And I can confirm, uh Speaker, as well that uh this process will only benefit South Africans, and I'm happy that Councilor is confirming that it's only South Africans uh that are residing at Kapok. Thank you very much.

00:57:39Thank you, MMC Mabaso. Councilor Dladla, can you follow up, or are you happy?

00:57:45No, thank you very much, uh uh Speaker. We are happy with the response. However, I just wanted to, as a as a concern, why why it has taken this long? You know, I'm telling you, Speaker, that there are people who've been residing there for over 50 years. It is it it it took only my question now for the department to be able to tell the people of Kapok that they are being considered. But if I may ask as well whether the MMC will be in a position

00:58:18to share with the people of Kapok as to the actual reasons, as they are claiming that there were some environmental constraints per the study, if they are in a position to share with the people of Kapok those studies because as the people of Kapok, we are we have seen this this we are living in that area. We have seen the area. The area is proper for habitation. We are asking ourselves as to the actual grounds for denying them that right. Thank you very much.

00:58:49Thank you, Councilor. MMC.

00:58:55Uh thank you very much, uh Speaker. Unfortunately, I was not there 50 years ago. Um but what I can safely report in the meeting, Speaker, is that it did not take the question for me to respond. The contractor that I'm talking about that is working in Roodepoort Farm, I introduced it last year. Um so already, there's been work uh that have been um happening on site. Uh but over and above that, Speaker, the Roodepoort Farm

00:59:26was identified um long time ago, um even when I became the MMC for the first time uh in 2019, uh the department was already working um on Roodepoort Farm. And we then had to identify beneficiaries, and Kapok was one of the areas that was identified as the beneficiaries um of Roodepoort Farm, amongst other informal settlements uh that are there. And when I introduced the contractor um at um Roodepoort Farm, uh the leadership of

01:00:00Kaalfontein was there because before we went on site, we had a meeting in a boardroom and all the informal settlements that are identified as beneficiaries of this particular development, they were all there represented in the meeting. So unless maybe there was a change of leadership, I wouldn't know and whether there is another group of leaders in the informal settlements that was not invited in the meeting, I wouldn't know as well. But what I can confirm in the meeting is that they were there.

01:00:30And I think maybe in the PSC, because there's also a PSC there, the report can be made available of the previous studies that were undertaken specifically for Kaalfontein, so that at least maybe they are also acquainted to what is contained in that environmental study which was presented by GDARD. Thank you very much.

01:00:52Thank you so much MMC Mabaso.

Questions for written reply

01:01:02We now move to questions for written reply, of which notice has been given in terms of Rule 105, Subsection 2 of the Standing Rules and Orders of Council.

01:01:18Executive.

01:01:25Greetings, Speaker. Greetings to the Chair of Chairs. Greetings to the MMCs. Greetings to councillors, our guest, and all protocols observed, Speaker. Speaker, on behalf of the Executive Mayor, I would like to advise the House that

01:01:52the responses to these questions are loaded on the link, and they should be able to access them, Speaker. Thank you very much.

01:02:00Thank you, LOGB.

PA caucus request and report back

01:02:05Councillor Juwele.

01:02:09Thank you, Speaker. The Patriotic Alliance is asking for 1 hour 30 minutes caucus, please.

01:02:26Thank you. It's granted, 1 hour 30 minutes. It's now... You'll come back at 12:40. Yo, PA.

02:33:29[inaudible] one and a half hours [inaudible]

02:33:36PA discussed, but we don't. PA, Councillor Kaldine, can you please report back?

02:33:44Thank you, Madam Speaker. We've concluded successfully, and as the PA, we would like to thank you for granting the caucus. Thank you.

02:33:52Thank you so much.

Adjournment for lunch

02:35:05Colleagues, looking at the time we are going to break for lunch. No, no, no, colleagues. I haven't done speaking. If we want to "ah" we can "ah" when I've done speaking, please colleagues, so that we can hear what I'm saying. We are going to break for lunch. We are going to come back at 2:00.

02:35:35Right? And hopefully everybody has caucused during the one and a half hours. So we breaking for lunch. Lunch might not be exactly ready now. It will be ready at 1:00. It's quarter to one. So we're breaking for lunch. We're coming back at 2:00, so you have 15 minutes to caucus still. Thank you, colleagues.

Calling caucuses back into the chamber

04:00:00caucuses that are not here. Can we check where our members are? We didn't come to council to stand outside, but we came to council to do business, council business. So if your neighbor is not here, find your neighbor.

04:00:26AfrikaansCouncillor Da Gama, asseblief tog. Asseblief, daar's baie ander. Kyk hier. Kyk hoe loop hulle. Baie ander.

04:00:36No, no, no. If you are clean, you keep, you're quiet. If you are clean, you are quiet. I'm talking to those that their members are walking around. The AIC caucus is fully in the chamber.

04:01:00The African Independent Congress is fully in the chamber.

04:01:16Councillor Christians, Councillor Christians.

04:01:22AfrikaansEk gee jou erkenning.

04:01:24Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I'd also like to report that the DA is in full, with over 70 councillors, and the IEC with their two. Thank you.claim

04:01:36So the DA doesn't have a proper number of councillors. They only have a number called over 70. I must go and check uh in my numerics whether there's a number called over 70. Or they are all or the are they all like me? Are they pensioners? Yes.

04:02:07Hai Santana, I don't want to entertain you today. You don't know how to play guitar.

04:02:14On a very serious note, can we start checking where all caucuses are, please?

04:02:26AfrikaansNou al ek ek gaan dit tel 70, 70.

04:02:52I made it especially for you.

Delay for absent councillors; request for a 5-minute break refused

04:14:00Councillor Christians, I see your hand up. Avant-Smith, I see your hand up. Okay, no one's hand is up. Who's in the chamber that's not supposed to be here, or that's running behind others? Okay. Colleagues, we were supposed to start at 2:00. Uh we can see that there are caucuses that are not fully in the in the house.

04:14:38I know that ActionSA has councillors outside. I know that

04:14:46isiZulueh, eh thula, bamom'sindo.

04:14:49I know that, I know that there are two DA councillors outside. Yes, and there are quite a few of other people that's walking in. The EFF is walking in. Colleagues, colleagues, can I finish what I want to say? Councillor Sifumba, can I finish? I'm still getting there. I made opening remarks. Okay, colleagues, we we are aware that we are supposed to have come back at 2:00. I see there are councillors that are still busy consulting each other,

04:15:45I'm patient. I'll wait for everybody to keep quiet, then I'll talk.

04:15:58Unfortunately, I don't have Allergex and Coke to take right now. Colleagues, colleagues, I want to say to you that there is a caucus that's outside, and I don't need you to scream out who it is. There is a caucus that's outside. They have asked for 5 minutes and I'm not granting it, because it's unprocedural. No, no, no. I don't need you to clap hands for me. Don't.

04:16:33So, we are going to continue. They will find us on the way. And I apologize that that has happened. I had to consult with legal, and if your councillors are still walking outside, send them a message to walk inside. Thank you so much. We are going to the next item. Thank you.

Item 7: Election of the Chief Whip – legal framework

04:17:42Uh councillors, we are on item seven, and that's the election of the Whip of Council.

04:17:54Thank you, councillors. Please note that there's a vacancy in the office of the Chief Whip of Council. The position must be filled. The position must be filled in accordance with Section 41A of the Municipal Structures Amendment Act No. 3 of 2021, and also in line with Schedule 3 of the Municipal Structures Act of 1998 as amended.

04:18:26Schedule 3 of the Municipal Structures Act. In terms of Schedule 3 to the Act, the person presiding must call for nominations of candidates for the vacant position of Speaker at this meeting. Each nomination must be submitted on the prescribed form and must be signed by two councillors, a nominee and a seconder.

04:18:55Sorry, the whip. No, no, no, it's fine, it could be either or. A person's nomination must indicate acceptance of the nomination by signing the nomination form. Furthermore, councillors' attention is drawn to item four of Schedule 3 to the Act, in terms of which the person presiding at this meeting must announce the names of the persons who have been nominated as candidates, but may not permit a debate.

04:19:33In terms of item five of the schedule, if only one candidate has been nominated, the person presiding must declare that candidate elected. If more than one candidate is nominated, and in accordance with item six of the schedule, a vote must be taken at a meeting by secret ballot. Each councillor present at the meeting may cast one vote. The person presiding must declare

04:20:06elected the candidate who receives the majority of the votes. In terms of item seven of the schedule, elimination procedure, if no candidate receives a majority of the votes, the candidate who receives the lowest number of votes must be eliminated, and a further vote must on the remaining candidates in accordance with item six. The procedure must be repeated until a candidate receives the majority of the votes.

04:20:39When applying sub-item one, if two or more candidates each have the lowest number of votes, a separate vote must be taken on those candidates, and requested as often as may be necessary to determine which candidate is to be eliminated. In terms of item eight, further meetings, if only two candidates are nominated, or if only two candidates remain after an elimination procedure has been applied, and those two candidates receive the same number of votes, a further meeting must be held within 7 days at a time determined by the person presiding.

04:21:24If a further meeting is held in terms of sub-item one, the procedure prescribed in this schedule must be applied at the meeting as if it were the first meeting for the elections in question. If at a further meeting held in terms of sub-item one, only two candidates are nominated, or if only two candidates remain after the elimination procedure has been applied, and those two candidates receive the same number of votes, the person presiding at such a meeting must determine by lot who of the two candidates will hold the office for which the election has taken place.

04:22:08Please note, councillors, that the Independent Electoral Commission, the IEC, has been requested to conduct the elections, and they have agreed to the request. I therefore request all councillors and relevant officials to cooperate with the IEC in this regard. The meeting will now proceed with the election of the Whip of Council of the City of Johannesburg Municipality, in accordance with Schedule 3 to the Act, as mentioned earlier. At this point, I will ask the IEC to take us through the election process.

IEC briefing on voting and counting procedure

04:23:04Thank you very much, uh Speaker. Greetings to councillors, uh officials, and guests uh in this uh chambers. Uh I'm from the IEC. I'm just going to uh take you through the procedures, which we are going to go through as we are to start with the elections.

04:23:35Uh these elections uh shall be conducted in secret ballot. And access shall be restricted to councillors of the City of Johannesburg only. All other stakeholders may observe uh from the gallery. And then in terms of identification, uh councillors will be requested to present their green barcoded ID, smart card, or valid temporary IDs as a form of identification, as I've indicated. And then uh in relation to observation of the process,

04:24:13election process, we are going to request uh the parties to nominate one party agent per party. And then the agents must be councillors of the City of Johannesburg uh municipality. And the agents may observe both voting as well as counting. And an updated name list with full names and ID numbers of the 268 uh councillors in the City of Johannesburg will be used as the voters' roll,

04:24:48noting that uh there are currently two ward vacancies. The voting station will be declared open as soon as the Secretary to Council starts reading the councillors' names as they appear on the voters' roll, and they will be sorted uh per party. Uh councillors absent on the day uh will be indicated uh during the roll call, and then uh party agents will be given preference to cast uh their votes. The councillors will then be called

04:25:28three at a time to cast their ballots. You uh the councillors will be marked off the voters' roll once they have uh voted. And councillors uh that are present, but are not feeling well, uh and wish to vote, must inform the presiding officer so that special arrangements uh can be made to accommodate them uh in the form of special votes. In terms of ballot papers, uh

04:26:04there will be printing of ballot papers after confirmation of nominations uh by the presiding officer in consultation with the party agents. And then uh if we do have an election, uh only 273 ballot papers will be printed and will be confirmed with the party agents. This allows for five additional or extra ballot uh papers. And then the ballot papers will only have the names of the candidates and no photos.

04:26:42A ballot will be issued after the councillor's name has been marked off the voters' roll. And then after receiving the uh ballot paper, uh voter must proceed to the voting booth to cast his or her vote, uh after we will have set up the station. And then the marked ballot must be folded once before being deposited into the ballot box. And then the voter

04:27:16IEC, can you just stop there? Who in the gallery is taking pictures that is not the media? You're sitting next to someone with a yellow dress. Whoever that councillor is, you are out of order. And it's not a joke. Can we Okay, you can proceed, IEC.

04:27:49Thank you very much, Speaker. Uh after uh depositing the uh ballot paper in the ballot box, the voter must return to his or her seat. And after then uh we'll uh after everyone, after the last councillor has voted, the voting station will be declared closed, and then counting will commence immediately after uh close. Ballot box will be opened in the presence of all

04:28:26party agents, and all ballots will be reconciled and verified. Ballots will then be sorted and counted according to candidates, and then the result slip will be completed and signed by the party agents. Results will be will then be handed to the presiding officer for the announcement to the council. And at this point, I will have uh

04:28:59at least uh given you the procedure we are going to follow. Then uh we are going to be asking for 10 minutes uh to allow for the nomination uh of candidates.

DA request for a 30-minute caucus break

04:29:24Councillor Rahn.

04:29:28Thanks, Madam Speaker. If we could just ask for an indulgence, make it 30 minutes, if that's possible?

04:29:35You're asking for what?

04:29:3630 minutes caucus break.

04:29:3730-minute caucus break, please, while we're doing the um during the process.

04:29:43Let's just wait for him to to to finish. IEC, you can continue.

04:29:52Colleagues will then be approaching the political parties to hand out the nomination forms. May I

04:30:00just get indications by show of hand where they must come to give nominations per party.

04:31:04Um, the DA caucus, the DA caucus, caucus Chief Rahn, Whip Rahn. Um, you do still want to caucus? Okay, so we'll give you 10 minutes. You received your form? No, no, no, Rahn has asked for something else. Oh, was it 30 minutes? Okay.

04:31:34But can we not have others screaming because Councillor Rahn could have said that to me. So, 30 minutes, Councillor Rahn, we agree to that. Has every caucus received a form? We come back at 3:10 sharp. Not 3:11. 3:10. Thank you.

Resumption and collection of nomination forms

05:02:05Thank you everyone. [inaudible] will now ask Councillor Rahn, as she's asked for what indulgence break?

05:02:23Before you go, Councillor. Can we be, can we settle down?

05:02:38Thank you, Councillor Rahn.

05:02:41Thank you, Madam Speaker. We've resolved all our processes on our side so we're all good to go. Thank you.

05:02:46Thank you so much. IEC, you may continue.

05:02:59Thank you very much, Speaker. We are just going to continue by collecting the nomination forms from the parties so that we can have a sense of the nomination process. There were three nomination forms which were handed out. Okay.

05:03:25Can we ask the people in the gallery, you are honestly a bit disturbing. Thank you.

05:04:27[inaudible] and then I'm going to

05:04:43There are [inaudible]

05:04:58[inaudible] is Councillor Belinda

05:05:13[inaudible] hereby nominate Councillor Nicole Jacqueline Rahn, and it has been seconded by Councillor Julie Suddaby. And it has been filled in accordingly. And then we have a second nomination form, the proposer is Loyilo Nkubungu.

05:05:44isiZuluNkubungu?

05:05:49isiZuluLuyolo.

05:05:50Sorry, sorry. And it nominates Khazamula Love Chauke, and the seconder is Nokuthula Nofemela, and it has been filled and signed as per the person also, the nominated person. And then we have Councillor Marcel Coutriers putting in the name of Councillor Joyce Ntombela.

05:06:21And it is the seconder is Kamogelo Melale. Well, the writing is unreadable. And the acceptance of Joyce Ntombela is also there. So, all three has been filled in properly and those are the people that has been nominated, seconded, and they have also signed acceptance forms.

05:06:54Thank you. IEC, your forms. Do you need your forms back? Take us through the process.

Confirmation and acceptance of the three candidates

05:07:05Thank you, Speaker. Now that we have got three nominations, we confirm that there will be an election which has to ensue and for that we will be asking for a 30 minutes in terms of time to allow us to set up the voting station. Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry.

05:07:35Yeah.

05:07:36Can we have the candidates accepting? Colleagues, I'm advised that all the candidates has signed. I'm advised that is acknowledgement and they have signed. All of them have signed so they are accepting. Councillor Belinda, MMC Masuku.

05:08:06No, Speaker, we are just speaking and we are saying it's a new precedence that you are setting. We didn't know that you do it like this now. Yeah, but if that's the way you choose to do it, we must respect you. But we were just saying in the past we have always done it where people and then they accept. But if it's a precedence, we respect your decisions.

05:08:28Thank you, MMC. I did also ask the table and they said it was fine. So, no, no, wait, wait, wait. We will get them to stand up and accept the nominations. Can I just have those forms to get the names? Apologies, colleagues.

05:08:52AfrikaansAs daar 'n dag was wat ek moeg gemaak het, dan is dit vandag.

05:08:58Okay, the first one that we read out was Nicole Jacqueline Rahn. We would like to know whether you accept the nomination for the position of Chief Whip for the City of Johannesburg Metropolitan Municipality.

05:09:18Thank you, Madam Speaker. I accept the precedent and I accept the nomination. Thank you.

05:09:22Thank you, ma'am. And then we have Councillor Christians, your hand is up.

05:09:37Thank you, Speaker. Speaker, do we take it that when you read out the nomination, it was reading it out for the record?

05:09:44Yes.

05:09:45Because normally what happens is you hand it back, then the proposer and seconder then read it into the record. So, you've done that now on their behalf. Is that correct? So, we know the process going forward. Thank you.

05:09:58Oh, Christians. I know. I think we all had different water this morning. Okay, the next person. The next...

05:10:28I didn't have lunch. Can we have the acceptance of Councillor Khazamula Love Chauke?

05:10:48I Khazamula Love Chauke, I accept the nomination of Whip of council.

05:10:56Thank you, Councillor. Can we have Councillor Joyce Ntombela accept?

05:11:06I, Councillor Joyce Ntombela, accept the nomination, position of Chief Whip of council. Thank you.

05:11:16Thank you so much. IEC.

05:11:30Okay, IEC will guide us. Please do it right, IEC. I didn't do it right, you do it right.

Voting station set-up and adjournment

05:11:42Thank you, Speaker. I then confirm that we have three nominations and that means that there will be an election which has to proceed. And for that to happen, we'll need to set up the voting station and perhaps

05:12:14I may just maybe take this time just to explain slightly in relation to the manner in which we're going to set up so that after the break we can then be able to start with the process. We will be making use of the space just in the middle to set up our station. We're going to have a queue coming from the passage from the top coming down.

05:12:43There will be a queue controller who will be verifying the identity of the voters, and then the voters will be directed to the voters' roll officers. There will be two voters' roll officers on my right, and then from there we'll proceed to the ballot paper issuing on my left. And then proceed to the ballot booths, which will just be immediately in front of me, before depositing

05:13:14the ballot just in the middle. The ballot box will be in the middle. Then we will be asking each voter to exit on two points. Those who are sitting on my right, please exit on my right, this will be the exit point. And then those who are sitting on the left, on my left, please exit just here on my left as it will be an exit so that there is order in the voting station.

05:13:44And with that, Speaker, may I then request that we be granted 30 minutes to prepare the voting station?

05:14:20We're going to give the IEC 25 minutes to do their work, and then we come back. We come back at 10 to 4.

Voting stage opens and party agents are appointed

05:44:29IT, can we deal with the mic in the front?

05:44:32Thank you. Thank you. Now the mic is sorted. Thank you, Speaker. We are now going to be proceeding to the voting stage of this election. And just as the preliminaries, we wish to start by dealing with the appointment of a party agents

05:45:03per party. May we get political parties just to appoint the representative who will observe the processes on their behalf.

05:45:24Can we see by a show of hands who the party agents are? Or tell us, whips.

05:45:33They can come down.

05:45:35I will start with Councillor Mogapi, then I'll go to Councillor Makhuba, and then I'll go to Councillor Avant-Smith, and I would also in the same breath ask IT to please switch off the screen so when we vote that there is no seeing of the ballot. Thank you. And then Councillor from Action SA

05:46:04and then Councillor Harris in that order. Councillor Mogapi.

05:46:11Thank you, Speaker. From the EFF, it's Diputlelo Mokoena.

05:46:15Can we see the person? Can the person come forward?

05:46:28Councillor Makhuba.

05:46:33Thank you, Speaker. For the IFP, it's Councillor Khanyile.

05:46:38Thank you. Councillor Avant-Smith.

05:46:43Thank you, Speaker. For the DA, it's Councillor Michael Crichton.

05:46:50Councillor Crichton, can you come to the front? Action SA.

05:46:56Thank you, Speaker. For Action SA, it's Councillor Esmé Liebenberg.

05:47:00Councillor Liebenberg. For ACDP, Councillor Harris.

05:47:06Thank you, Madam Speaker. Councillor Chris Rohlssen will be praying for the winner.

05:47:11Councillor Rohlssen. Councillor Pitso.

05:47:19Thank you, Speaker. From the Patriotic Alliance, it's Councillor Pitso. Thank you.

05:47:24Councillor who?

05:47:26Councillor Pitso. It's myself.

05:47:27Yourself?

05:47:28Yes.

05:47:28Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Mofokeng.

05:47:35Thank you, Speaker. For the ANC, it's Councillor Raphadu.

05:47:38Councillor Raphadu. He's not here. Can we get Councillor Raphadu? And can we also get councillors to come in?

05:47:55IEC.

IEC explains voting order and special votes are registered

05:47:59Thank you, Speaker. As we'll be proceeding with the processes of the elections, we are going to prioritize the party agents to vote first and then from there we can get help in terms of the special votes if ever there were any applications.

05:48:27Councillor Avant-Smith, can we get those names for the special votes?

05:48:32Thank you very much, Speaker. It's Councillor Van Der Merwe and Councillor Goosen.

05:48:37Councillor Van Der Merwe and Councillor Goosen. Any other councillors for special votes? No? Councillor Mofokeng.

05:48:46It's Councillor...

05:48:49Councillor who?

05:48:51Councillor Mabuke and Councillor Maake.

05:48:53Councillor Mabuke and Councillor Maake. You in line for special votes? EFF.

05:49:03Councillor Nkosi, special vote.

05:49:06Councillor Nkosi, special vote. Can those of the special votes join the queue of the party agents?

First round of voting

05:49:34If there's anyone who [inaudible].

05:51:19Please stop that.

05:54:36[inaudible] and then special votes.

05:56:23IEC.

05:57:08That all voters who [inaudible].

05:57:24We'll now be [inaudible].

06:00:41And it's going to confuse us.

06:01:26I will be arranging

06:01:41Then we have Councillor Wissler.

06:01:57Councillor Lebatlang.

06:02:11Councillor Coverdale.

06:02:27Councillor Coutriers.

06:02:57Councillor Prince Modupi.

06:03:46Councillor Mposula.

06:03:54Councillor Nkomo.

06:04:00Councillor Bini.

06:04:07Councillor Durand.

06:04:15Councillor Mabelebele.

06:04:27Councillor Ntombela.

06:04:41Councillor Mabunda.

06:04:47Councillor Mkhonto.

06:04:55Councillor Moatshe.

06:05:06Councillor Mashala.

06:05:11Councillor Johnson.

06:05:17Councillor Mohlala.

06:05:23Councillor Atterbury.

06:05:28Councillor Jainoodeen.

06:05:35Councillor Rakosa.

06:05:41Councillor Matabane.

06:05:49Councillor Ngwetsheni.

06:05:58Councillor Chuma.

06:06:06Councillor Sehoai.

06:06:13Councillor Aphane.

06:06:20Councillor Nyaqela.

06:06:29Councillor Hlengiwe Masuku.

06:06:39Councillor Sondag.

06:06:49Councillor Moshapo.

06:06:55Councillor Xulu.

06:07:07Councillor Ntlemeza.

06:07:11His first day in council and he must vote.

06:07:31We move to ACDP. Can we have Councillor Harris?

06:07:43Councillor Mkhonza.

06:07:57Councillor Mpolobosho.

06:08:03And Councillor Arnolds.

06:08:12Councillor Mhlongo.

06:08:28We proceed to ANC.

06:08:34Councillor Mgcina.

06:08:41Councillor Mnisi.

06:08:49Councillor Morero.

06:08:56Councillor Mazibukwana.

06:09:03Councillor Ramafikeng.

06:09:12Councillor Mokoari.

06:09:19Councillor Molefe.

06:09:29Councillor Ndzondo.

06:09:38Councillor Phometsi.

06:09:47Councillor Lebea.

06:09:50Councillor Lebea.

06:10:08Councillor Nofemela.

06:10:15Councillor Mulelu.

06:10:25Councillor Moeti.

06:10:33Councillor Magwaza.

06:10:42Councillor Mokwena.

06:10:51Councillor Ngema.

06:11:12Councillor Mathe.

06:11:17Councillor Simelane.

06:11:28Councillor Mmota.

06:11:46Councillor Khomongoe.

06:11:56Councillor Mabuza.

06:12:02Councillor Makaula.

06:12:23Councillor Kwapeng.

06:12:53Councillor Mashinini.

06:12:59Councillor Tshehlo.

06:13:03You know, I'm so disillusioned with all these people.

06:13:09Councillor Ndou.

06:13:13Did he say that's alphabetical order? Because ain't no way.

06:13:16No, no, no. You know what it is. It is the way that you are on the list.

06:13:22That's how you

06:13:25Why every time it's me?

06:13:58Councillor Molefe.

06:14:04How long are you taking?

06:14:05Councillor Dlamini.

06:14:13Councillor Mazibuko.

06:14:17There should be another driver.

06:14:35Councillor Lefutso.

06:14:40Councillor Tsotetsi.

06:14:47Councillor Mofokeng.

06:14:54Councillor Chetsanga.

06:15:04Councillor Simelane.

06:15:22Councillor Molise.

06:15:41Councillor Madiba.

06:16:05Councillor Xuma.

06:16:11Councillor Nkubungu.

06:16:22Councillor Tambani.

06:16:27Councillor Tefu.

06:16:33Councillor Zazini.

06:16:50Councillor Modladlaba.

06:16:59Councillor Mhlari.

06:17:07Councillor Mpotulo.

06:17:18Councillor Bolani.

06:17:24Councillor Mgaga.

06:17:26There must be two of that.

06:17:31Councillor Mngadi.

06:17:37Councillor Radebe.

06:17:40This part of the day

06:17:42this was the day now. Yo, guys!

06:17:47Councillor Mutavhatsindi.

06:17:53You know what, hey? It was so unnecessary, and they are showing their true colors to the world.

06:19:19Councillor Nyembe.

06:20:49Councillor Ngoepe.

06:21:04Councillor Maswazi.

06:21:14Councillor Ndou.

06:21:25Councillor Ngwenya.

06:21:35Councillor Francisco.

06:21:41Councillor Mphaho.

06:21:48Councillor Supe.

06:22:02Councillor Mangena.

06:22:09Councillor Marema.

06:22:15Councillor Zondo.

06:22:26Councillor Nzimande.

06:22:32I'm not chewing gum. I'm not.

06:22:48Councillor Chauke.

06:23:06Councillor Zungu.

06:23:13Councillor Mmbengwa.

06:23:24Councillor Tabane.

06:24:06IT, can we sort this mic?

06:24:25Uh Councillor Galeshewe.

06:24:30Councillor Shange.

06:24:35Councillor Buthelezi.

06:24:40Councillor Ndlela.

06:24:46Councillor Marumo.

06:25:13Councillor Sindani.

06:25:26We're now on uh APC party. Councillor Mokoena.

06:25:40On the ATM party, Councillor Magwentshu.

06:25:49Al Jama-ah, Councillor Amad.

06:25:53Councillor Gwamanda.

06:26:00Councillor Karolia.

06:26:23In the Congress of the People, we have Councillor Mokome.

06:26:32Moving to DA. We have Councillor Rahn.

06:26:39Councillor Niemand.

06:26:44Councillor Nkomo.

06:26:48Councillor Wax.

06:26:51Councillor Maila.

06:27:00Councillor Ramaru.

06:27:11Councillor Kgeletsane.

06:27:41Uh Councillor Nkwanyana.

06:27:45Councillor Da Gama.

06:27:49Councillor Marais.

06:27:58Councillor Mazibuko.

06:28:12Councillor Rambani.

06:28:54Councillor Chabalala.

06:28:58Councillor Louw.

06:29:50Councillor Avant-Smith.

06:30:34Councillor Masera.

06:32:35Councillor Da Rocha.

06:33:06Councillor Benjamin.

06:36:36Councillor Echeozonjoku, Councillor Horwitz.

06:38:04Councillor Roberts.

06:38:21Councillor Hughes, Councillor Fourie-Shawe, Councillor Jacobs, Councillor Jonker, Councillor Shawe, Councillor Williams.

06:39:12Councillor Stewart, Councillor Reddy, Councillor Foley, Councillor Hoon, Councillor Jacobs.

06:39:44Councillor Bodenstein, Councillor Bittkau, Councillor Harman, Councillor Shackleford, Councillor Koekemoer.

06:40:18Councillor Santana, Councillor Coogan, Councillor Mphefo, Councillor Truluck.

06:40:54Councillor Pietersen, Councillor Sekhu.

06:41:02Sekhu.

06:41:10Councillor Brand.

06:41:12Brand.

06:41:22Councillor Brand.

06:41:46Councillor Deppe, Councillor Steenkamp, Councillor Dladla, Councillor Baloyi, Councillor Raholane.

06:42:19Councillor Ngwenya, Councillor Seema.

06:42:31Oh, Councillor Seema, sorry. Councillor Molefe, Councillor Nethamba, Councillor Ntoele, Councillor Nenemba.

06:43:03Councillor Nhlapo, Councillor Mosehla, Councillor Ndou.

06:43:30Councillor Telekoa.

06:43:35Telekoa.

06:44:15Councillor Leshilo, Councillor Seerane, Councillor Mofokeng, Councillor Nkosi.

06:44:55Councillor Mogapi, Councillor Moepi, Councillor Tshedo, Councillor Komane.

06:45:23Councillor Raseruthe, Councillor Radebe, Councillor Zitha, Councillor Makhafola, Councillor Tshwaku.

06:46:00Councillor Mbambala.

06:46:13We move to GOOD, Councillor Cook. And IFP, Councillor Mabaso, Councillor Makhuba, Councillor Manganyi, Councillor Nkomo.

06:46:43Councillor Nyembe, Councillor Mkhize.

06:47:12And the PAC, Councillor Nkokou.

06:47:25In Patriotic Alliance, we have Councillor Wilskut, Councillor Mokoena, Councillor Cherry.

06:48:08Councillor May, Councillor Jacobs, Councillor Simonse.

06:49:17Councillor Ponsonby.

06:49:19I said he's not here.

06:49:21Councillor Kaldine.

06:49:38Councillor Smouse.

06:50:23Councillor Abdool.

06:50:38Councillor Smit.

06:50:51[inaudible] was not called, can they make their way to the front.

Voting closes and counting

06:53:39We are now going to close.

06:53:54So voting is now closed.

07:19:23isiZulu[inaudible] eGoli sebentula i-data.

07:21:39Put the aircon out, it's cold here. Please, Speaker.

07:28:58And we're, aircon, we are working on it.

07:29:49Yeah.

07:33:37Please.

07:33:52What's happening after this?

07:37:08Look like he's giving info, please.

First-round result: no outright winner, Ntombela eliminated

07:37:22Uh we just want to confirm we're done with the counting and I'm going to hand over the result slip to the presiding officer.

07:37:58Colleagues. Colleagues.

07:38:33Okay, colleagues, can can can we listen? And if you didn't hear whilst you are making a noise, it's your own business, okay? We had a total of 245 ballots that was cast. We had canceled no ballots.

07:39:01We had spoiled ballots 41. Can you allow me to continue? You had total valid votes 204. And the votes are as follow. You have Rahn Nicole Jacqueline 71. You have Ntombela Mary Joyce 37.

07:39:32You have Chauke Khazamula Love 96. We don't have an outright vote um majority. We should have 122 to be ahead. So we are now going to eliminate Ntombela Mary Joyce because you have the lesser votes. And we are going to restart voting.

07:40:01Cuz we need to

07:40:13Are we Are we listening? Are we listening? ActionSA caucus, can we agree that when I start when we started, we read out what we need to do and how we need to do elections? If you don't understand, go back to what I read,

07:40:44and you'll understand. And if we listen, we will understand what needs to happen. So, we are going back to voting again cuz we need to have an outright voter uh person. Thank you. The vote will be taken on Chauke and Rahn. I thank you.

Singing and disruption before the second round

07:41:11isiZuluViva Mbokodo viva. Viva Mbokodo viva.

07:41:27SepediBatho baya kwa.

07:41:35Is other

07:41:42AfrikaansGetrou julle.

07:41:46AfrikaansEk is mos vrek of wat?

07:41:47Listen guys,

07:41:51No, no. Leave us.

07:41:54I love you, woman.

07:41:56SepediHai! Ge o ikwa o nale maatla o tle o re botse gore re sa tla go goelela. Hai! gwa re tlo go goelela. O phaphiswa ke eng?

07:42:09SepediO di kreiile?

07:48:52Is pretty good.

07:59:27Can we start checking?

08:04:08We are starting.

Second-round process explained

08:04:38That caucus at the back.

08:04:42ActionSA. Good ActionSA. Thank you speaker.

08:04:54Thank you so much. Councillors, can we listen to the process? Because we don't want us.

08:05:03Yeah perhaps we should just indicate that we are going to have another election on the two candidates after the elimination of the candidate who got the lowest.

08:05:24Just hold on I see Councillor Niemand and Councillor Christians, please.

08:05:31Thank you. We are going to be having another election as I have indicated. The drill is the same. And in this case the process will start really and honestly we should not take too long because there won't be any nomination. We are just going to ask that the party agents as they have been

08:06:00nominated come up front so that we can start the process. We have already printed the again 273 ballots which will be used. And in this case we will then start with party agents again

08:06:30to vote and then we'll then have the special votes. So without wasting much time, I should just indicate that we need to stick with the same process as it was. That's why I think the setup remained the same in front of us. May I then request the colleagues from IEC to

08:06:59take their position in the station. May we have party agents as they were joining us as well. And I think the only drill we can make is just to confirm closure of the ballot box and allow the party agents to start

08:07:37voting. Yeah, you need to check the box and so that you can close.

08:08:22Can the box be closed with the seal?

ActionSA request to change the order of calling refused

08:08:30Marcel, I see your hand is up.

08:08:35Thank you speaker. I know we cannot ask for a caucus break. But speaker, something's just come up now and we'd want to know if you could start the list from one of the other parties instead of starting it with ActionSA if possible.

08:08:50But we are going alphabetically. We are going alphabetically so ActionSA is first on the list.

08:09:04I do understand that speaker. So we requesting that you start with a different party and do us last if possible.

08:09:13We are starting with ActionSA because it will confuse us colleagues. I'm not giving in. Start with ActionSA.

08:09:21AfrikaansOns gaan alfabeties.

08:09:24Thank you, I'm not going to allow any debate between me and you. Thank you colleague. I'm also working on advice.

Second round of voting begins

08:09:40Thank you speaker. Then the election will be beginning in the station.

08:10:40isiZuluKhumbula nento esasebesenza khumbula.

08:12:04If the party agents are done, then we can proceed with the special votes.

08:12:14Colleagues, are there any special votes? So that we can take them off. Chair Mnyameni. Anybody else, special vote? Going, going, gone. Okay, it's only Chair Mnyameni.

08:13:19We can proceed with the rest of the voters.

08:13:23Right, we're proceeding.

08:13:26We starting off with Councillor Wissler, Councillor Masoga, Councillor Mokoka, Councillor Lebatlang, Councillor Mchunu, Councillor Coverdale, Councillor Edward,

08:14:03Councillor Coutriers, Councillor Van Wyk, Councillor Mohlala.

08:14:37Councillor Munyayi, Councillor Modukanene, Councillor Zwane, Councillor Shumba, Councillor Nefdt, Councillor Ntshidi.

08:15:35Councillor Mposula, Councillor Nkomo, Councillor Bini, Councillor Durand, Councillor Ntombela, Councillor Mabelebele.

08:16:22Councillor Mabunda, Councillor Mkhonto, Councillor Moatshe, Councillor Mashala, Councillor Johnson, Councillor Mohlala,

08:16:59Councillor Atterbury, Councillor Jainoodeen, Councillor Rakosa, Councillor Matabane, Councillor Ngwetsheni,

08:17:31Councillor Nkonyeni, Councillor Chuma, Councillor Sehoai, Councillor Aphane, Councillor Nyaqela,

08:18:05Councillor Hlengiwe Masuku, Councillor Sondag, Councillor Xulu, Councillor Moshapo, Councillor Ntlemeza.

08:18:43Moving to ACDP, Councillor Harris, Councillor Mkhonza.

08:19:17AIC, we are moving with Councillor Mpolobosho, Councillor Arnolds, Councillor Mhlongo.

08:20:09isiZuluUbungeke ukwazi ukungiboleka isishaja [inaudible].

08:20:16Moving to ANC, Councillor Masuku, Councillor Mgcina, Councillor Mnisi, Councillor Morero.

08:20:55Councillor Mazibukwana, Councillor Ramafikeng, Councillor Mokoari, Councillor Molefe, Councillor Zondo, Councillor Phometsi.

08:21:47Councillor Lebea, Councillor Nofemela, Councillor Mulelu, Councillor Moeti, Councillor Magwaza,

08:22:19Councillor Mokoena, Councillor Ngema, Councillor Mathe, Councillor Simelane,

08:22:55Councillor Mmota, Councillor Khomongoe, Councillor Mabuza, Councillor Makaula, Councillor Kwapeng.

08:23:46Councillor Mashinini, Councillor Tshehlo, Councillor Ndou, Councillor Molefe,

08:24:20Councillor Dlamini, Councillor Mazibuko, Councillor Lefutso, Councillor Tsotetsi, Councillor Mofokeng,

08:24:59Councillor Chetsanga, Councillor Phindile Simelane, Councillor Molise, Councillor Madiba, Councillor Nxuma, Xuma,

08:25:45Councillor Nkubungu, Councillor Tambani, Councillor Tefu, Councillor Zazini.

08:26:43Councillor Modladlaba, Councillor Mhlari, Councillor Mpotulo, Councillor Bolani,

08:27:26Councillor Mgaga, Councillor Mngadi, Councillor Radebe, Councillor Mutavhatsindi, Councillor Nair,

08:28:06Councillor Hlatshwayo, Councillor Nguse, Councillor Nyembe, Councillor Khumalo,

08:28:39Councillor Sekwaila, Councillor Modupi, Councillor Lobi, Councillor Mavhona, Councillor Mothopi,

08:29:17Councillor Twala, Councillor Makamo, Councillor Maluleka, Councillor Hlatshwayo, Councillor Ngoepe.

08:30:11Councillor Maake. Councillor Maswazi. Councillor Ndou. Councillor Ngwenya. Councillor Francisco.

08:30:41Councillor Mphaho. Councillor Supe. Councillor Mabuke. Councillor Mangena. Councillor Marema. Councillor Zondo.

08:31:12Councillor Nzimande. Councillor Chauke. Councillor Zungu. Councillor Mmbengwa. Councillor Mnyameni.

08:31:44Councillor Tabane. Councillor Galeshewe. Councillor Shange.

08:32:23Councillor Buthelezi. Councillor Ndlela. Councillor Marumo.

Roll call for Chief Whip ballot (continued)

08:32:53Councillor Sindani. Councillor Mokoena. Moving to ATM. Councillor Magwentshu. In Al Jama-ah, we have Councillor Amad.

08:33:25Councillor Gwamanda. Councillor Karolia. Congress of the People. Councillor Mokome. Mokome, sorry.

08:34:00On DA, Councillor Rahn. Councillor Niemand. Councillor Nkomo. Councillor Wax.

08:34:34Councillor Maila. Councillor Ramaru. Councillor Kgeletsane. Councillor Nkwanyana.

08:35:17Councillor Da Gama. Councillor Marais. Councillor Mazibuko. Councillor Rambani. Councillor Chabalala.

08:35:50Councillor Louw. Councillor Suddaby. Councillor Sifumba. Councillor Papo.

08:36:29Councillor Pietersen. Councillor Christians. Councillor Avant-Smith. Councillor Hughes. Councillor Hooper. Councillor Kreusch.

08:37:03Councillor Ncube. Councillor Masera. Councillor Mnisi. Councillor Campbell-Cloete. Councillor Mohamed.

08:37:37Councillor Meyers. Councillor Moloisane. Councillor Marais. Councillor Landis.

08:38:13Councillor Chame. Councillor Da Rocha. Councillor Sherman. Councillor Finn. Councillor Benjamin. Councillor Schay.

08:38:46Councillor Huggett. Councillor Echeozonjoku. Councillor Horwitz. Councillor Roberts.

08:39:47Councillor Goosen. Councillor Hughes. Councillor Fourie-Shawe. Councillor Jacobs. Councillor Jonker.

08:40:18Councillor Shawe. Councillor Williams. Councillor Stewart. Councillor Reddy. Councillor Foley.

08:40:48Councillor Hoon. Councillor Jacobs. Councillor Bodenstein. Councillor Bittkau.

08:41:27Councillor Harman. Councillor Shackleford. Councillor Koekemoer. Councillor Santana. Councillor Coogan.

08:42:00Councillor Mphefo. Councillor Van Der Merwe. Councillor Truluck.

08:43:13Councillor Pietersen. Councillor Sekhu. Councillor Brand. Councillor Deppe. Councillor Steenkamp. Councillor Dladla.

08:43:43Councillor Mokwena. Councillor Baloyi. Councillor Raholane. Councillor Ngwenya.

08:44:20Councillor Seema. Councillor Molefe. Councillor Nethamba. Councillor Ntoele.

08:44:59Councillor Nenemba. Councillor Nhlapo. Councillor Mosehla. Councillor Ndou. Councillor Telekoa. Sorry, Councillor Telekoa.

08:45:30Councillor Leshilo. Councillor Seerane. Councillor Mofokeng. Councillor Nkosi. Councillor Mogapi.

08:45:59Councillor Moepi. Councillor Tshedo. Councillor Komane. Councillor Raseruthe. Councillor Mkasi. Councillor Radebe. Councillor Zitha. Councillor Makhafola. Councillor Tshwaku. Councillor Mbambala. Councillor...

08:46:31Councillor Cook. Councillor Mabaso. Councillor Makhuba. Councillor Manganyi. Councillor Nkomo. Councillor Nyembe.

08:47:01Councillor Mkhize. Councillor Khanyile. Councillor Nkokou. Councillor Wilskut. Councillor Mokoena. Councillor Cherry.

08:47:41Councillor May. Councillor Jacobs. Councillor Simonse. Councillor Ponsonby. Councillor Kaldine.

08:48:11Councillor Smouse. Councillor Zigebe. Councillor Abdool. Councillor De Lange. Councillor Boer.

08:48:42Councillor Smit. And Councillor Pelzer. Any councillors' name I did not call, they can walk through to the booth. Thank you.

08:50:32No, through you, Speaker, we just want to check if everyone has cast their ballot so that we can close the station.

08:50:51Are we all fine? Have we all voted? Yeah, I think we've all voted. We ended off with the voters' roll, at the end of the voters' roll. We've called out everyone.

08:51:03Thank you very much. Then we will declare voting closed and then preparations can start for counting.

08:51:14Thank you.

Power outage during counting

09:10:15As I was.

09:10:22Colleagues, some of the, uhm,

09:10:28the electricity's gone off again. Uh, and your plugs will not be working. Some of your plugs. I believe the DA is lucky. Theirs is working. Oh, you also not? Councillor Rahn. Councillor Rahn. There's a Councillor at the back. I can't, I don't know who it is. But if you can please speak to that Councillor.

09:10:57Uh, so I just heard that the, yours were working, but it's fine. So, we, we're still waiting for them to fix it. So all of us are not working even here in the front. Thank you.

09:15:30IT, can we have the mics working?

09:15:34Thank you, uhm, just to confirm we are done with counting, and I'm going to hand the result to the presiding officer.

09:16:43[inaudible] or we'll continue.

09:16:54Can I have the attention of councillors?

First-round result of Chief Whip election: no majority

09:17:01Thank you, councillors. We have the results. The results are as follows. We had 42 spoiled. We had valid votes 169. The votes that was cast was 211. You want me to repeat? 42 spoiled, 169 valid. And the votes that was cast was 211. And, uhm, Councillor Rahn got 68. Councillor Chauke got a 101.

09:17:32We still don't have an overall majority, so we'll have to come back and do it over. We need to have a 106 for a majority of where we are, so we'll come back for another voting. I thank you.

How to proceed after the failed first round

09:17:55Colleagues, can I have your attention?

09:18:35Colleagues, can you just take your seats? We are just trying to confirm what to do.

09:20:40Colleagues, can I have the attention of councillors? Cause we need to make a decision now, and I cannot make a decision on my own. Those who don't want to listen, it's fine. If you don't want to listen, it's okay. I will continue with those that want to listen. Colleagues, the IEC and the Structures Act, ne? And the Structures Act says we must carry on

09:21:12until we have reached.

09:21:19AfrikaansKan ons luister?

09:21:20Can we listen? So, we, we can carry on until 02:00 tomorrow morning. No, no, colleagues, colleagues. Until 02:00 tomorrow morning, and we have reached, and we get an outcome. Or we can abandon this and take it to another meeting. And then,

09:21:49when we come to another meeting, we can then deal with all the other items that is left. And the suggested date for that would be the 11th of September. And we are going to continue with those two. Chair of Chairs, I believe you want to say something.

09:22:20Thank you very much, honourable Speaker and distinguished councillors.

09:22:25Colleagues, can I listen to the Chair of Chairs?

09:22:31Like I said, thank you very much, honourable Speaker. Beautiful councillors of the City of Johannesburg. I rise to make a plea that, you know, considering that we are now very late, there are two important items, item 18 and item 19, that I would want, most definitely,

09:23:01to. So, I hear other councillors behind me are saying to end 22, but I have raised 18. Those are MPAC items. Just those two. It was a plea from my end that we consider those items. I do not know the feelings of the house. Thank you.

09:23:26Thank you. Thank you, uhm, Chair of Chairs. I think, yeah, we're in agreement that 18, 19 and 22 should be dealt with. I thank you. Thank you. Councillor Belinda.

09:23:47Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I, if I heard you correctly, you said the suggested date is the 11th. Firstly, I want to first make a proposal that we finish with the Chief Whip, at least, if we have to conclude it tonight. And if any other meetings or any other items that we need to deal with, it says a reasonable time.

09:24:17A reasonable time is seven days. Why do we push it out for two weeks, if I may ask? Uh, those are just, it's just a suggestion. My first suggestion would be that we conclude the Chief Whip one, and then others, if there's any reasonable whatever need to be done, can we do it within seven days, which I believe as the DA caucus that it's a reasonable time.

09:24:43Okay, Councillor Belinda, we've had requests from other caucuses that are asking that they are unable to carry on and we might not have a quorum. So, we're asking that we only do these, because those two of MPAC we have to deal with it. We need to respond by the 30th. So, can we do that, and can we do the one of, uhm, of, of 22?

09:25:15Councillor Mogapi.

09:25:20Thank you, Speaker. As the EFF we are requesting for 15 minutes break.

09:25:27Yeah. Councillor, uhm, Councillor Marais.

09:25:36Uh, thank you, Madam Speaker. Uhm, as the Chair of Chairs has suggested and so on, we're fine with that, but we humbly request that we include item 20 in there as well. Otherwise we sit with another month.

09:25:50That's 18, 19, 20 and 22.

09:25:54Thank you, Speaker.

09:25:55Okay, thank you. We can do that. Councillor Rahn.

09:26:05Thanks, Madam Speaker. Just if we could just get some clarity on the request from our leader regarding the time frame. Is next week

09:26:14We'll give the time frame when we end the meeting. We'll give the date when we end the meeting. Okay, so we'll go to 18, 19, 20 and 22. Okay? Thank you. Oh yeah, there was a 15 minutes caucus break. Councillor Mogapi, can I beg you that if it's 15 minutes, it's 15 minutes?

09:26:43Because caucuses have complained their people are tired, and there is no supper. Thank you.

09:26:56Can we come back at 19:50? Not more than 19:50. 19:50.

DA objection on stopping the election midway

09:47:41with what's happening with the IEC packing up. Um We were in a middle of a process which is a legal process. And Schedule 3, there's no place in Schedule 3 for what we doing now. So, I'm putting it on record that we are moving outside the parameters of the law as it stands, and what we are doing is open for litigation. And I just want that on the formal record. Thank you, Speaker.

09:48:25Councillor Niemand, I do believe that we are all asking each other at the table what are you trying to say to all of us. Um We are trying to understand, and we are also checking

09:48:47Uh can I help you so to be quite clear?

09:48:50Just hold on. Just hold on.

09:48:52Section 7

09:48:53AfrikaansCouncillor Niemand, kan jy net aanhang, asseblief? Dankie.

09:48:58We have We have said that we All of us at the table are trying to understand what are you saying, because what are you saying is very vague. So, can you

09:49:13Afrikaanskan jy jouself in 'n moontlike manier duidelik maak?

09:49:18Thank you, Speaker. What I'm saying, to be quite clear, is that Section 7 of Schedule 3, which um runs this election process, does not make provision for stopping this midway. It literally says, the process must be repeated until there's a winner or there's a tie. So, if we stop this midway,

09:49:46we are moving outside the parameters of Section 7 of Schedule 3, and we are leaving ourself open for possible litigation. I'm just highlighting that fact. That's what I'm saying.

09:50:04Councillor Councillor Niemand,

09:50:09Afrikaanssê dit ons moet onmiddelik aangaan, of sê dit ons moet aangaan?

09:50:15If it says repeated, does it say repeated immediately, or does it just say repeated?

09:50:23Uh it's a question of interpretation. It says the process must be repeated. So, But it nowhere state that it can be stopped.

09:50:33Repeated when?

09:50:36When we busy with it. And we busy with it now.

09:50:43Where does it say when we stop? Because it says, you are you are completely right. It says it must be repeated. So, we are going to repeat it, but we are just not repeating it now.

09:51:00AfrikaansOns gaan dit herhaal, maar ons gaan dit nie nou herhaal. Ons gaan dit herhaal.

09:51:08We are going to repeat it, but we are not going to repeat it now. We are going to repeat it.

09:51:15Thank you, Speaker. I hear you. I've put it on record, my concerns. It's on record. Thank you.

09:51:21Thank you, Councillor. Thank you so much. I saw the hand of the Chair of Chairs up.

Order of business agreed and executive items tabled

09:51:33Once again, thank you very much, uh honorable Speaker of Council, uh together with my fellow councillors of the City of Johannesburg. Um I wanted to just make it clear uh in case of those who have not heard what is to be elevated from the legislature point of view and if I am allowed, uh Speaker, just for record-keeping purposes. That would be uh my request that item 18 and item 19 be read together on records

09:52:09and those that would want to debate it, uh do so uh, you know, for both item at a time. That And item 20, item uh 22, and together with MANGs. Uh those are the items that I want to, you know, lobby council today that we consider in this house today. Thank you.

09:52:36Thank you, Chair of Chairs. If I heard you well, cuz your voice is also starting to fade, uh item 18 and item 19 should be read together, and the speakers will then uh debate them. And then item 20 and item 22, and then um the MANGs. Can we agree on that? So, um STC.

09:53:26Um we we are now on recommendations to council.

09:53:42The Executive Mayor, in the absence of the Executive Mayor, who will give us recommendations?

09:53:57Uh greetings, uh Speaker. Uh greetings uh to fellow councillors. Uh Speaker, on behalf of the executive, I hereby rise to table the items of the executive for consideration by council.

09:54:14LOB, can I just take Can you just take your seat? Councillor Khanyile.

09:54:20Now, thanks very much, Speaker. Um I just want to check that since uh the EFF has asked uh 15 minutes caucus, colleagues, have they reported it back, or they are still on the caucus? Thank you very much.

09:54:36Thank you. Thank you, Councillor uh Khanyile. Um MMC, before I allow you, apologies, it's all the deurmekaar. Um can you please uh report back? Sorry. EFF.

09:54:51Thank you, Speaker. We apologize for taking too long. As the EFF, we can proceed. Thank you.

09:54:58Thank you so much, Councillor. MMC um Zungu.

09:55:05Uh thank you, Speaker. Um I won't uh greet again. Uh Speaker, I rise to table the items of the executive for consideration by council. Thank you very much, Speaker.

09:55:16Thank you so much, um MMC. Chair of Chairs.

09:55:29Once again, honorable Speaker and beautiful councillors of the City of Johannesburg, I, Councillor Adolph Marema, rise to table the legislature reports. I thank you.

09:55:40Thank you so much, Chair of Chairs.

Items 18 and 19: MPAC motivations on irrecoverable UIFW expenditure

09:55:45Councillors, we're on elevated item 18, and that's motivation that council certify as irrecoverable and regularize irregular and unauthorized expenditure for August 2025. And also read with item 19, which is also a motivation that council certify as irrecoverable and regularize or recover unauthorized, irregular and fruitless and wasteful expenditure for August 2025.

09:56:16Thank you. Member in charge, Councillor Chair Raseruthe.

09:56:29Thank you very much, Speaker. I, if I got it correctly, uh the house is saying we should table the two items together. Uh thank you very much, Speaker. I rise to table the motivations by the Section 79 Municipal Public Account Committee for council to certify as irrecoverable and regularize irregular and unauthorized expenditures.

09:57:06According to Section 32, Subsection 2 of the MFMA, a municipality must recover unauthorized, irregular, or fruitless and wasteful expenditure from a person liable for the expenditure, unless the expenditure, after investigation by a council committee, certified by the council as irrecoverable and written off by the council.

09:57:40Further, Speaker, according to Regulation 74, Subsection 1 of the Municipal Budget Reporting Regulations of 2009, once a council committee has investigated the recoverability of UIFW expenditure, the committee must submit a motivation to council explaining its recommendation regarding the recoverability of the expenditure. Speaker,

09:58:12noting this piece of legislation, on the 1st July 2025, the committee agreed to recommend to council that UIF expenditures be certified as irrecoverable and regularized. This expenditure covers various core departments. The expenditures range from 2017/18 to 2023/24 financial years. Madam Speaker, as the committee, we are encouraged that some of these matters will be referred to disciplinary board for further investigation where the elements of financial misconduct were identified.

09:58:54In conclusion, Madam Speaker, the committee recommends that council approves recommendation to certify as irrecoverable and regularize the expenditures as listed in the report and its annexures. That is item number 18. I think if I heard correctly, I must continue to item number 19.

09:59:24Speaker, I rise to table the motivations by the Section 79 Municipal Public Account Committee for council to recover or certify as irrecoverable and regularize irregular, fruitless and wasteful, and unauthorized expenditures. According to Section 32, Subsection 2 of the MFMA, a municipality must recover unauthorized, irregular, or fruitless and wasteful expenditure from the person liable for the expenditure, unless

10:00:00the expenditure after investigation by a council committee by the council as irrecoverable and written off by council.

10:00:12Further, Speaker, according to Regulation 74, Subsection 1 of the Municipal Budget and Reporting Regulations of 2009, once a council committee has investigated the recoverability of UIFW expenditure, the committee must submit a motivation to council explaining its recommendation regarding the recoverability of the expenditure.

10:00:38Speaker, noting this pieces of legislation, on 12 August 2025, the committee agreed to recommend to council that some UIFW expenditures be recovered, whilst others must be certified as irrecoverable and regularized. This expenditures covers various core department

10:01:01The expenditure range from 2010-2011 to 2022-2023 financial years. Madam Speaker, as the committee, we are encouraged that some of these matters will be referred to disciplinary board for further investigation where the element of financial misconduct were identified. In conclusion, Madam Speaker,

10:01:28the committee recommends that council approves recommendations to recover and certify as irrecoverable and regularize the expenditures as listed in the report and its annexures. Thank you very much.

Items 18 and 19: opposition and small-party debate

10:01:44Thank you, Member in Charge. Councillor Boer?

10:01:58Thank you, Madam Speaker, fellow councillors. I'm going to be short, it's late in the evening. The Freedom Front has got no reason to doubt the integrity of the MPAC Committee in bringing this report to council, but we do have a problem to just give a blanket approval to write off these amounts. If you look at Item 18.5, and as the Chairperson has said, we must motivate why we are writing off certain expenses.

10:02:29Item 18.5 number 1 says Group Finance, the service provider was a panel of service providers, so it could be 1, 10, or 100. The amount is R1.2 billion. And the recommendation is only the department must implement record-keeping procedures, monitoring, and enforcing of the supply chain management policy. So, a lot of things could have gone wrong in those items. And to expect from us to just say blanket, yes, write it off,

10:02:59the Freedom Front won't allow that. Other items in this report are okay. 18.16, Group Finance, last year overspending on debt impairment. We all know that we wrote off more on debt impairment than we should have done, 1.2 billion. We've got no problem with that. In that very same year, we also overspent R3 billion on bulk purchases. Strangely enough, that is not on the report for write-off. So,

10:03:27we are satisfied with a couple of those items, we cannot give a blanket thumbs up to approve this whole report. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

10:03:36Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Harris, you speaking on both items?

10:03:45Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on Items 18 and 19, the motivation that the council certify as irrecoverable and regularize

10:03:54Speak into your mic. Speak in your mic, thank you.

10:03:56irregular and unauthorized expenditure for August 2025. Irregular and unauthorized expenditure is an indicator of non-compliance in supply chain processes. The high occurrence of irregular expenditure usually goes hand in hand with poor supply chain management practices. Ideally, the SCM processes needs to be investigated by management to determine whether it was unintended errors,

10:04:26negligence, or done with the intention to milk the system. While we are advised that the MPAC Committee has scrutinized all of these cases, we are not supplied with the details of who is responsible for the non-compliance and what its impact was. We are not aware of what the impact on the fiscus was and whether there was any negligence. So, condonement of the non-compliance will be an irresponsible act.

10:04:53If negligence was proven, what steps were taken to implement disciplinary action? Was an attempt made to recover any losses from the implicated officials? How many contracts were canceled? Were any criminal charges laid? The MFMA is clear that the accounting officers and authorities are responsible for preventing irregular expenditure.

10:05:20Pardon me. Sorry, I'm having a technical glitch. It's going to be intolerant of us if we are going to accept the lax approach to taking corrective action against people. We need to ensure that oversight and accountability are

10:05:50enforced, and we must ensure that those that intentionally fail to comply with legislation are dealt with. Corrective or disciplinary action for misconduct must become the norm rather than the exception. If you are to run a clean administration, we cannot afford to wait for years to deal with this mismanagement. The ACDP cannot, in good conscience, condone the writing off and regularizing of over R5 billion

10:06:18in fruitless, irregular, and wasteful expenditure. The reputation of the city is at stake. I submit, Madam Speaker.

10:06:28Thank you, Councillor Harris. Councillor Cook?

10:06:34Thank you, Madam Speaker. In the interest of time, I will withdraw my speech.

10:06:40Thank you, Councillor Cook. Councillor Nkosi from EFF?

10:06:51Thank you, Speaker. I'll be speaking on behalf of Councillor Nkosi, who's not present at the moment. Speaker, as the EFF, we agree with the recommendations on these items for now, but we ask that we use and comply with the Circular 68 and 111 in future. I thank you.

Items 18 and 19: ActionSA on regularization and GFIS

10:07:15Thank you, Councillor. ActionSA, Councillor Modukanene?

10:07:28Thank you, Speaker.

10:07:35I rise today to address the recommendation to certify as irrecoverable and regularize unauthorized and irregular expenditure. These write-offs are not a choice we make lightly. They reflect years of financial mismanagement, weak systems, and a failure to enforce accountability at the time offenses were committed.

10:08:05Most of these cases date back several financial years, and the officials responsible have long left the city. This make consequence management practically impossible. As MPAC, we have no alternative but to regularize these amounts. Chasing recovery under such circumstances would be both costly and dishonest to residents.

10:08:30But this is not just about history. It is about the present administration's failure to prevent recurrence. The Group Forensic and Investigation Services, GFIS, is central to this discussion. Mandated to investigate UIFWE on behalf of MPAC, GFIS has been deliberately weakened. The same politically motivated witch-hunt that cost residents over 12 million

10:09:00through the SIIC has undermined its independence, stripped its powers, and stalled its investigations. ActionSA rejects this assault on GFIS. When Herman Mashaba was Mayor and established the unit, it uncovered over 6,000 cases worth 35 billion. GFIS must not be dismantled or discredited. It must be strengthened, properly resourced, and protected from political interference.

10:09:32ActionSA is committed to the rule of law. We will not accept a municipality that normalizes misconduct. Instead of demonizing GFIS, the city must empower it. Whatever problems exist within the unit can and must be fixed, not buried. Speaker, this report is a symptom of a much bigger problem, an administration that undermines accountability. If the city is serious about ending financial mismanagement,

10:10:02it must start by capacitating GFIS and allow it to do the work that it was created to do. I thank you.

10:10:13Thank you, Councillor Modukanene. Councillor Abdool?

10:10:33Thank you, Speaker. The UIM withdraws.

Items 18 and 19: DA speech

10:10:38Thank you, Councillor Abdool. Councillor Shawe? S-H-A-W-E. Or is it Shaw? Apology.

10:10:50Thank you, Speaker. It's pronounced Shaw.

10:10:55Thank you.

10:10:57Speaker, I'm going to talk on Item 18 and 19. Honorable Speaker, members of council, and the residents of Johannesburg, we meet today under a shadow of shame. Two separate reports from our Municipal Public Accounts Committee confirm what residents across our city has felt for years. Johannesburg is failing its people, not because we lack resources, but because we lack accountability.

10:11:27Between these two MPAC reports, the city's own financials reveal over 1.9 billion in irregular expenditure, more than 3 billion in unauthorized expenditure, that's billion with a B, and over 1.3 million in fruitless and wasteful expenditure. It's over 5 billion unlawfully or wastefully spent in the last decade. Here's a even deeper disgrace.

10:11:57For years, these reports were not tabled in council. Those three officials responsible for presenting them delayed and obstructed oversight. As a result, residents were denied accountability. We are debating issues today that date back more than a decade. Yet, we only received these reports now in 2025. This delay is not just bureaucratic failure,

10:12:26it's an insult to the residents who have suffered all this time without answers. Despite these facts, you're going to like this, the current ANC Mayor blames the DA for Johannesburg financial crisis. This is misleading and dishonest, as the numbers before us clearly show that the ANC-led governments, which have been in power for most of the past decade, are responsible for these failures. Let's put 5 billion into perspective,

10:12:56and get ready because it's a long list. It's a mother in Ennerdale and Orange Farm still waiting for a proper home while Housing overspent by more than 379 million and had to refer its acting director for potential misconduct. It's a pensioner in Berea who pays her rates faithfully, yet watches refuse pile up because Group Finance irregularly spent 1.2 billion

10:13:26and cannot account for procurement. It's a nurses in public clinics treating patients without basic supplies while millions are paid late to Eskom and Telkom, attracting penalties. Residents from Constantia Kloof to Westcliff waking up to sewage in their streets despite paying highest rates, some of the highest rates in the city.

10:13:56The people in the Joburg CBD living in what feels like a war zone. Every rand spent or wasted is a rand stolen from residents' dignity. Mismanagement doesn't discriminate. It hurts the poorest, and it hurts the ratepayers in affluent suburbs across the wide services to the entire city, yet receiving shockingly little in return.

10:14:26The Municipal Finance Management Act is crystal clear, and it's not a suggestion, it's the law. Section 15 says you cannot spend money without an approved budget. Section 112 says procurement must be transparent and lawful. And Section 32 says unlawful expenditure must trigger investigations and consequence management. Yet, these reports list flagrant violations year after year.

10:14:56EISD failing to keep basic procurement record-keeping for contracts like Kumba Energy and Royal Haskoning. Public Safety overspending over 520 million repeatedly. Group Legal and Contracts irregularly spending over 430 million under Regulation 36, bypassing competitive tenders. Bayete Capital tied over 50 million in irregular expenditure.

10:15:26And Housing blowing hundreds of millions without controls, or penalties for late Eskom and Telkom payments expose neglect of the basics. Here's the uncomfortable truth: the GLU, the Government of Local Unity, ANC, EFF, ActionSA, PA, allows this culture of impunity to persist. Instead of fixing the system, they entrench cadre protection.

10:15:56They look the other way on consequence management. They treat regularizing unlawful expenditure as if it wipes the slate clean, while residents across Soweto, Sandton, Eldorado Park, Emmarentia, Alexandra, Auckland Park, Sophiatown, and every corner of this city live with collapsing services. While the Government of Local Unity quarrels over positions and patronage,

10:16:24residents endure leaking pipes, broken roads, uncollected refuse, unsafe streets, and unaffordable rates. The gap between what people pay and what they get has never been wider. Imagine what 5 billion could have done. Thousands of dignified housing units built, clinics properly equipped with medicine and staff in Diepsloot and Randburg, working streetlights in Ivory Park and Illovo,

10:16:54pothole-free roads from Orange Farm to Observatory, and consistent refuse collection from Meadowlands to Mondeor. Instead, we are here years later debating on how to write off unlawful spending dating back to more than a decade because proper oversight was delayed for years. Speaker, residents deserve honesty. It's not an accident, it's a choice.

10:17:24A choice made by those who protect political allies instead of residents. A choice made by this Government of Local Unity, which is failing to enforce the law. While some of the items been referred to disciplinary boards, no tangible consequences or accountability have resulted. We cannot keep normalizing lawbreaking. Section 32 of the MFMA is not a suggestion, it is the law.

10:17:54And the law demands that every official responsible face consequence management, including dismissal and criminal referrals where necessary. So today, I ask this council: will you continue to shield those responsible for this unlawful expenditure? Will you defend political allies at the expense of the residents who elected you in this chamber? Or will you take a chance, stand for the people of this city, for transparency, and for the rule of law?

10:18:24Let me make myself absolutely clear. The DA stands with and for the residents of Johannesburg. We stand with a pensioner in Westdene wondering where her rates goes. We stand with the small business owner losing clients because his streets are filthy and unsafe. We stand with the family in Orange Farm still waiting for housing. And we stand with the students in Auckland Park dodging potholes

10:18:54and broken streetlights. We stand with residents from Saxonwold to Soweto, Diepkloof to Dunkeld, Alex to Atholl, because all deserve dignity, safety, and reliable services. We stand with every resident who suffers when money is stolen or wasted. The DA's values are clear, and you can see these values reflect everywhere the DA governs outright. The rule of law

10:19:24is non-negotiable. People's money belongs to the people. Transparency and accountability are the foundation of good governance. If you defend unlawful spending, you are telling residents their suffering doesn't matter. Under a majority DA government in Johannesburg, the DA will ensure real consequence management where every official implicated must be disciplined and held accountable. Enforce transparency

10:19:54where quarterly reports on corrective actions must be tabled publicly, no more hiding behind process. Install independent forensic audits where procurement rules were broken. Cases must go to SAPS. And we need and will protect residents' money, implement strict procurement controls and the end of the abuse of Regulation 36

10:20:24emergency tenders. Johannesburg cannot afford more waste, irregular expenditure, or cadre protection. We need a government that respects the law and its people. The DA will not stay silent. We will keep exposing wrongdoing. We will keep fighting for residents' right to dignity, safety,

10:20:47Councillor, we can't hear you.

10:20:49reliable services. I'll repeat that last one. We will keep fighting for residents' right to dignity, safety, and reliable services. We will demand that every cent of public money goes to public good, not private pockets. And I stress once last time: the MFMA is not a suggestion, it is the law. And the law must apply to everyone in Johannesburg.

10:21:19Mismanagement must have real consequences, and the residents of Johannesburg must come first. Enough is enough. Thank you.

Items 18 and 19: ANC, Chair of Chairs and MPAC reply

10:21:33Councillor Mazibuko from the ANC?

10:21:40isiZuluHhayi, liyasha.

10:21:49Thank you, Speaker. My name is Councillor Nompumelelo Mazibuko. I rise to speak on Item 18 and 19 on behalf of the ANC. Allow me to open my speech with a quote: "We want to remove the legacy of oppression in all forms, be it racial, economic, or gender-based. The struggle for women's emancipation is not a side issue, it is fundamental to the transformation

10:22:18of our society." As African National Congress, we support the certification as irrecoverable and regularized as guided by the law and the National Treasury framework. However, we insist that the lessons from these failures must inform our systems going forward. We want to build a city that can spend transparently and efficiently, especially in an era where every rand must reach our people.

10:22:48The ANC supports the regularization of this amount, but we also call for accountability mechanisms to be strengthened. Let us be clear: while we must comply with legislation, we must also ensure that unauthorized expenditure is not normalized. It must remain the exception, not the rule. As the ANC, we will follow up

10:23:18through the Municipal Public Accounts Committee, MPAC, to ensure strict implementation and oversight. Madam Speaker, the MFMA sets out what must be done where irregular, unauthorized, or fruitless and wasteful expenditure has occurred. We support this directive without hesitation. We believe that accountability and consequence management are not an option, they are essential

10:23:48to clean governance. We therefore expect the accounting officer to comply fully and report accordingly to this council and the relevant oversight bodies. The directive that this report, along with council minutes, must be submitted to the National Treasury within the seven days is both appropriate and in line with good governance. We also support the requirements that Group Finance

10:24:18report... Okay. We cannot afford to fail our people due to administrative laziness or non-compliance. Speaker, as the ANC supports these recommendation, but not blindly. We support them in the spirit of progressive governance, in the interest of transparency, and in pursuit of our people's rights to effective service delivery. We must never forget that every rand misused

10:24:48or mismanaged is a rand stolen from a household without a water, a community without electricity, or a child without a clinic. Let this council rise above partisanship and pass these recommendations with firm commitment to change and restoring the dignity of the City of Johannesburg. Having said that, this cannot be business as usual, but we call for clear consequence management for officials who repeatedly

10:25:18fail to follow proper SCM and governance processes. This city must be run on discipline, efficiency, and integrity. Speaker, these figures represent years of financial misalignment between budgets and expenditure. Let's be honest, this reflects poor planning and ineffective controls in previous administration. We agree that...

10:25:50We urge... Oh, okay. Excuse me. We strongly support... Okay, Section 32(6) of the MFMA is not an option. It allows legal steps to be taken when expenditure is unauthorized, irregular, and wasteful. Speaker, let us correct the past, manage the present, and safeguard the future.

10:26:19Let us be clear: there can be no real transformation without the full liberation of women. Past and present reminds us that women are not guests in political spaces, they are builders of struggles. It is time for men, especially those in leadership, to control their own biasness and become allies in dismantling systems that continue to marginalize women. I thank you, Speaker.

10:26:52Thank you, Councillor. Chair of Chairs, Marema. Colleagues, colleagues.

10:27:02Oh, thank you very much, Madam Speaker and esteemed councillors of the City of Johannesburg. I'm not sure, Speaker, if I'm protected or not.

10:27:23Colleagues, can we respect the councillor on the podium? Or we'll also make noise when you speak. Thank you, Chair of Chairs.

10:27:35Once again, thank you very much, Madam Speaker and esteemed councillors of the City of Johannesburg. I think the item, two items before us requires that council do proper duress so that we comply with legislations. I would not delve into comparisons of cities when we are speaking about MPAC items. All we ask is that this council note these reports. Thank you.

10:28:06Thank you, Chair of Chairs. Member in Charge, Councillor Raseruthe?

10:28:12Thank you very much, Speaker. I would like to take this opportunity and take all the contributions home. But I also want to highlight something to Councillor Boer and Councillor Harris. There is a huge difference between writing off and pursuing consequence management issues.

10:28:40Member in Charge, can you please just speak into the mic?

10:28:45Okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, Madam Speaker. I would like to address Councillor Boer and Councillor Harris. Maybe they lack this information. There is a difference between consequence management and write-off. In fact, when we write off, we are trying to clean the register of UIFWs,

10:29:14but still, we can pursue those issues in those departments. We are not writing off to close everything, no. We are still going to pursue them. And again, Speaker, we cannot chase 15 million and we spend 1 billion. It doesn't make sense. That's when we do cost-benefit analysis, whether are we going to benefit or lose money

10:29:43of the city. When we come to realize that we are going to spend more, we can't pursue such a UIF. But Speaker, I would like to thank the contributions

10:30:00from members of MPAC committee, because when they contribute you can hear that they they know exactly what is happening in that committee. And again, Speaker we are saying this historic UIFWs they range from 2010. 2010 I was not a councillor in the City of Johannesburg. But as the Chairperson of MPAC and the committee

10:30:25we must deal with those historic UIFWs, because we must clean the register. I think everyone will take that message home. But with that being said, Speaker we, we are asking council to to note this, both reports. Thank you very much.

10:30:46Thank you, member in charge. Councillors the recommendations are on page 18.3 and 19.3. Are the items noted?

10:31:02Thank you.

Item 20: Changes in membership of Section 79 committees

10:31:05Councillors, we proceed with item 20, and those are changes in membership of various Section 79 committees.

10:31:13Councillor Mogapi.

10:31:25Councillor Mogapi, you are speaker on item 20. Changes in membership of various Section 79 committees.

10:31:35Thank you, Speaker. As the EFF we don't have changes. Thank you.

10:31:38Thank you.

10:31:45The recommendations are on page 20. Is the item agreed to?

10:31:52Thank you.

Item 22: Upper limits of salaries and allowances of councillors 2024/25

10:31:54We move to item 22, and that's Remuneration of Public Office Bearers Act of 1998, Act of 20 of 1998 as amended. And that's the determination of upper limits of salaries, allowances, and benefits of different members of Municipal Council for 2024/25 financial year.

10:32:20So, we are all talking and singing together now.

10:32:26Can I have ActionSA, Councillor S. Nkonyeni.

10:32:34Thank you, Madam Speaker.

10:32:37Uh greetings to all of the councillors

10:32:42uh members in the gallery. Uh Madam Speaker, as ActionSA we approve this report. Thank you.

10:32:55Thank you, Councillor Nkonyeni. The EFF, Councillor Nhlapo.

10:33:01Colleagues, colleagues. Councillor Nhlapo.

10:33:06Greetings to the Speaker. Greetings to the EFF Chief Whip and the EFF caucus leader and all councillors in the house. I rise on behalf of the Economic Freedom Fighters to address the 2024/2025 determination of upper limits of salaries, allowances and benefits for the municipal councillors as per the Remuneration of Public Bearers Act 1998.

10:33:33This act, while providing legal clarity on the compensation of public office bearers, must be approached with a spirit of responsibility and fairness especially in times when our communities face unemployment, poor service delivery and economic hardship. As the EFF, we are not opposed to fair remuneration, but we reject excessive benefits that serve the elite rather than the people.

10:34:00Our mandate is service, not luxury. We call for the transparent review of how these benefits are aligned with the performance and the city's fiscal reality. Let our pay reflect our productivity. And let the needs of our communities come first. We further propose that the savings from inflated be redirected toward job creation programs

10:34:22improved basic services and housing delivery. Let the council prioritize the people over privilege. I thank you.

10:34:32Thank you, Councillor Nhlapo. Chair of Chairs.

10:34:40Thank you very much, Honourable Speaker, esteemed councillors of the City of Johannesburg all protocol observed. I rise to ask for council to approve the report. Thank you.

10:35:00Thank you, Chair of Chairs. The recommendations are on page 22.8. Is the item agreed to?

10:35:06Agreed.

10:35:11Thank you.

10:35:14Councillors, we proceed with item nine, and those are motions. With the first motion being the motion of

10:35:33Oh, Councillor

10:35:36Thank you for the opportunity. You closed the item just too quickly. We didn't support the previous item. We had reasons for that. Our reasons still stand, so just note our dissent on that.

10:35:48Is that item 22? Thank you, Councillor De Lange. It's noted.

10:35:57Councillor Christians.

10:36:01[inaudible] opposition to item 20, 22, 22 be recorded. Thank you.

10:36:07isiZuluSiyabonga.

10:36:08Can we go

Dispute over the order of business before motions

10:36:14Councillors, on motions, the first motion is the motion of a vote of no confidence against the Chairperson of Environment and Infrastructure Services Committee Councillor V. Munyayi.

10:36:32Thank you, Councillors. Um, the proposer for for this motion is Councillor Temola Joseph Madiba.

10:36:48Madam Speaker.

10:36:51I can't see the person. Oh, Councillor De Lange.

10:36:57Madam Speaker, I'm just a bit confused. You mentioned the 11th of September and for the purpose we couldn't get the election as what was um expected through on the election of the Whip of Council, and then you said we're only going to do these four items. That's what you said, Madam Speaker. Now we're jumping to motions. So, I'm a bit confused.

10:37:24Can I, can I bring you back to where we were?

10:37:27Thank you.

10:37:29If we can remember and recall when we came back into the chamber after the IEC packed up the Chair of Chairs stood up. The Chair of Chairs asked that item 18 and 19 be tabled together.

10:37:53And then he asked that we do item 20 and item 22. And then he asked that we do the, the motions of no confidence. No, no, no, colleagues. Colleagues. Colleagues. Councillor Niemand, are you agreeing with me? Yes?

10:38:16It was said that way. It was that way and we all agreed. We all agreed. I know that I've, that Councillor Niemand stood up before and Councillor Niemand still gave me the law and asked me are we not causing a problem for ourselves? And then the

10:38:44Chair of Chairs stood up all of us heard it and I don't know why you did not hear that. I thank you. We are proceeding as said.

Motion 1: No confidence in EISD Chair Cllr Munyayi (proposal and debate)

10:38:58I'm asking the proposer, Member Madiba, Councillor Madiba to come on.

10:39:22Can we have the mic? There's a mic that's on. Can you switch off your mic? Can you use another mic, or we'll get you a roving mic. Somebody's mic is on. Can I see all the mics up? Can you all put your mics up?

10:39:44One, two.

10:39:46The mic at the back, can you switch it off? Thank you, Councillor.

10:40:03Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hey, Munyayi.

10:40:07SepediEy wa kitima monna. Dimic ga di bereke, ke mathata.

10:40:21Speak through the mic. The one next to you.

10:40:29One, two.

10:40:31Protocol. Can you check all the mics, please?

10:40:39Okay, carry on. Unless IT, there's a roving mic.

10:40:53isiZuluYazi unamanga lomama uqambela amanga futhi asiyazi ukuthi uzoyithathaphi ngoba uMarema uthe we are all here, simamele.

10:41:01isiZulu[inaudible] uthe ama-items one, two, azange akhulume ngama-motions. Mhlawumbe uthunyelelwe i-short message ukuthi abaqhubeke manje.

10:41:11IT, can we get the roving mic?

10:41:36One, two. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Uh greetings to all councillors, all protocol observed. Uh Madam Speaker, I stand to table a motion in terms of Rule 92(1) of the Standing Rules and Orders of Council. It is a motion of vote of no confidence against the Chairperson of Environment and Infrastructure Services Councillor V. Munyayi.

10:42:05I believe that the Chairperson of Environment and Infrastructure Services Committee, Councillor Munyayi, has failed in his duties to lead the committee in a manner that seeks to ensure effective oversight. Councillor Munyayi has failed to guide the committee towards getting to the bottom of critical service delivery issues relating to constant water and electricity outage in the city and ensuring the responsible member of

10:42:35responsible member of the mayoral committee provides committee with regular reports with remedial measures in that regard. As a result, we have lost confidence in Councillor Munyayi as the Chairperson of Environment and Infrastructure Services Committee as he failed to provide leadership in the committee so as to exercise oversight over the executive.

10:43:01It is therefore recommended that a motion of vote of no confidence against Chairperson of the Environment and Infrastructure Services Committee, Councillor V. Munyayi, be passed by council. That upon the passing of the motion the vacancy for the position of the Chairperson of Environment and Infrastructure Services Committee be filled in accordance with Rule 24 of the Standing Rules

10:43:29and Order of Council. I thank you, Madam Speaker.

10:43:33Thank you, Councillor. Are we

10:43:35isiZuluMabahambe!

10:43:37Is it agreed to the motion?

10:43:40Agreed!

10:43:42isiZuluMabahambe!

10:43:46Okay, can we have can we have the seconder Councillor Themba Mhlongo.

10:43:51Sounded like Lesufi.

10:44:00Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Good evening to you and good evening to the fellow councillors. I, Themba Mhlongo rise to second the motion tabled by Councillor Madiba. Thank you so much.

10:44:15Thank you Councillor Mhlongo. Can we have Freedom Front Plus, Councillor Boer.

10:44:23Thank you, Madam Speaker. Um fellow councillors I think this council needs to remember one thing, that we are elected by the residents, by our own constituencies, to represent the residents of this city and to be here for the well-being of our residents. The residents didn't vote for us to play internal politics and if I'm cross with somebody then we remove him. Um

10:44:55party politics should not even be in existence in this council. We are here to serve the residents of the city. And why I'm saying this, Madam Speaker, and the residents are going to punish some political parties hard in the next coming up election next year for not serving them. Um this motion, clearly the proposer and the seconder of the motion have never been on the Section 79 committee meeting, they don't know what is going on there.

10:45:24This chairperson that we had, Councillor Munyayi, was probably the best chairperson that this council could have seen in its whole life.

10:45:38Councillor Munyayi was so dedicated. We had oversight visits at least once or twice a month. He served this committee with absolute dignity, and it is a shame for the proposer and the seconder to put up a motion full of lies to remove him. Madam Speaker, in Afrikaans we will say

10:45:59Afrikaansons inwoners is gatvol vir politisie.

10:46:02And you can see that, because our residents have lost trust into politicians because they're not looking after the well-being of the residents, they're just looking after their own well-being. And as long as we do those type of actions in this city, we will never ever get to move this city forward. Our Chairperson Munyayi was busy with the public participation process on the waste bylaw, which is going to fall away

10:46:31because he's not chairperson anymore if this motion passes. Um this is so destructive for the city, and I'm calling up upon all councillors, if you have any form of integrity in your body, dismiss this motion with the most disrespect that can be. Thank you very much.

10:46:52AfrikaansMoenie lieg, Boer. Moenie lieg, Boer. Boer, moenie lieg.

10:46:57Councillor Boer

10:46:58AfrikaansBoer, moenie lieg, Boer.

10:47:01We don't have lights, street lights.

10:47:03AfrikaansEk moes jou ek moes jou in orde geroep het vir die woord, die woorde wat jy gebruik het. En ek gaan dit nie herhaal nie, en dis nie 'n debat tussen ek en jy nie.

10:47:17Madam Speaker, I will

10:47:19Councillor Harris.

10:47:28Madam Speaker, I rise to speak to the motion of no confidence in the Chairperson of the EISD Section 79 Committee. The Section 79 Committee is a municipal committee established in terms of Section 79 of the Local Government Municipal Structures Act 117 of 2008. Its primary functions, amongst others, are to lead a team in conducting oversight and monitor the delivery and outputs of the executive.

10:47:56They call on departments municipal entities and members of the mayoral committee to account for their actions. They submit reports to the council which are essential for the council's decision-making processes. They aim to restore hope for residents who are in despair and in dire need of effective service delivery from the City of Johannesburg employees.

10:48:22From the ACDP vantage point Chairperson Munyayi has performed admirably under difficult circumstances. If he is removed, service delivery and accountability will be seriously compromised. The residents of Johannesburg stand to lose again. Continuity of oversight is hampered. A new chair so close to the end of the political term worsens the environment of instability and doubt.

10:48:51Can we afford to play musical chairs in the face of the serious service delivery and financial challenges facing the city? The ACDP does not support this game to satisfy childish, vengeful and spiteful political aims. I thank you.

10:49:08Councillor Mashala. Councillor Mashala.

10:49:17Madam Speaker, I rise to reject this frivolous and desperate motion against Councillor Munyayi. This motion is not about oversight, not about the residents, not about service delivery. It's about the ANC and their GNU partners looking for a political scapegoat because they have nothing to show for the people of Johannesburg. What a shame. What an erosion of consciousness.

10:49:45Speaker, this is laughable. The ANC lecturing us about oversight is like Eskom lecturing us about reliable electricity.

10:49:58Speaker. Yes, Councillor at the back.

Remark about "cows" and voting procedure on abstentions

10:50:06Uh Speaker, we can't be disrespected like this and then we keep quiet.

10:50:11Uh we are not cows.

10:50:15Surely, we need the video of that person that said that.

10:50:18We need consequences to be applied against that person with immediate effect.

10:50:26Or else we are going to handle it ourself.

10:50:36Councillor Seerane.

10:50:40Councillor Seerane.

10:50:44Councillor Seerane, is it Councillor Baloyi? Councillor Baloyi, I was actually looking around who it was, I could not see the person.

10:50:55But I was looking who that person was.

10:50:59I couldn't see the person, I was definitely looking for that.

10:51:05And I think we shouldn't be doing what we are doing.

10:51:10There are no cows and there are no animals here. There are only human beings here.

10:51:23Uh-uh, I didn't hear that.

10:51:47You can lower your hands. Those that are abstaining.

10:53:24Councillors, you can uhm lower your hands.

10:53:28Councillor Boer.

10:53:36Councillor Boer, let me just say

10:53:41Afrikaansuhm verskoning,

10:53:43apologies, there is such a report. And the, the report reads as follows:

10:53:56That Council note the report of the Rules Committee that during the voting process, the Speaker first recognise the councillors who wish to abstain from the voting process.

10:54:09That Council notes when the Speaker puts an item to a vote, he or she must first recognise the councillors who are opting to abstain first prior to move into those who are in support of the item, including those who are not in support of the item.

10:54:28That any, any party caucus which oppose the item to be voted on may request for a decision not to support the item to be formally recorded in the minutes in line with Rules 84 of the Standing Rules and Orders of Council.

10:54:44AfrikaansSo 'n verskoning daaroor,

10:54:46and it is noted that way.

10:54:48AfrikaansBaie dankie.

10:54:59It was because

10:55:11I think it was all in, in, in the fact that Councillor Christians had always stood up and also said we are now saying, or you want, we want to note that we are abstaining from it.

10:55:24So, thank you.

10:55:29Was not you? Okay, but we will look at the, we look at into it.

10:55:35Thank you.

Motion 1 vote result

10:55:39We'll start now with those that abstained.

10:55:42They are 57.

10:55:47It's counted. While I was reading, they were counting.

10:55:52Those that abstained was 57. Those that said no,

10:55:59is 41. And those that agreed, is 129. It is carried.

10:56:13Thank you, councillors.

Motion 2: No confidence in Finance Committee Chair Cllr Edward (proposal and debate)

10:56:16Uh councillors, we proceed with the second motion and that is the motion of a vote of no confidence against the Chairperson of Finance Committee, Councillor N. Edward.

10:56:26Councillor Modupi. Colleagues, can we, can we please listen to those that are speaking? It might just allow the process to go. Thank you.

10:56:41Thank you very much uh Speaker.

10:56:44Speaker, I rise to state here that

10:56:49Councillor Mpumi Edward, the Chairperson of Section 79 Finance Committee has failed in her duties to make sure that we hold the executive accountable,

10:57:08making sure that Section 71 reports

10:57:20Can we have the next mic? Take the next mic next to you.

10:57:35Okay, this one uh

10:57:37No, we won't, just hold on, Councillor. We won't only ask for ActionSA, but can all the mics be lifted?

10:57:46I said not only ActionSA, I asked that all the mics be lifted.

10:57:52Ayi, colleagues, colleagues.

10:57:55AfrikaansAyi nee man, dis laat in die aand.

10:57:59Councillor Modupi, can you carry on?

10:58:10isiZuluWoza la.

10:58:45Can we have the roving mic in that row, please?

10:58:55Go to the row behind you.

10:58:59Thank, thank you, thank you uh Madam Speaker.

10:59:03Madam Speaker, I am hereby rising to state that Councillor Mpumi Edward, the Chairperson of Section 79 Finance Committee, has failed in her duties to hold the executive accountable, to making sure that as the committee, we receive reports such as Section 71 reports timeously

10:59:31so that we can exercise our own oversight. In addition to that uh Madam Speaker, the Chairperson of Section 79 has also appropriated the powers of the committee to herself, behaving as if she is a sole decision maker, taking decision on our behalf without

10:59:59consultation with us. I think even Councillor Boer will agree with me on that one.

11:00:07I therefore uh Madam Speaker, hereby recommend that the motion of no confidence against the Chairperson of Section 79 uh Finance Committee, Councillor Mpumi Edward, be passed by this uh sitting of Council. And upon that motion being passed, I also

11:00:36propose that the vacancy be filled uh in accordance with Rule uh 24 of the Standing Rules and Orders of this Council. Thank you very much.

11:00:51Thank you, Councillor Modupi.

11:00:56Is the item carried?

11:00:58No!

11:01:01Thank you. Can we have the seconder? Councillor Fatima Abdool.

11:01:09Thank you, Speaker. I, Fatima Abdool, hereby second the motion.

11:01:14Thank you, Councillor Abdool.

11:01:18Councillor Mkhonza, ACDP.

11:01:26Yes. Shalom, shalom, uhm Madam Speaker. Uhm I'm, I rise to stand on the motion against uhm Section 79 Chair, Councillor Edward.

11:01:38But before that, uhm Madam Speaker, allow me to quote from my guiding manual, the Holy Bible.

11:01:44From 1 Corinthians 13, the child has spoke about childish matters, for I saw things like a child and reasoned like a child, but the day came when I matured, and I set aside. Madam Speaker, allow me to focus on this debate on two contrasting words: one, maturity; two, childishness. Madam Speaker, maturity is not merely a matter of age or experience, but a journey of growth, responsibility, and transformation. The Oxford Dictionary defines maturity as the state of being fully developed and the quality of thinking and behaving as a sensible adult manner. In public office, maturity must therefore translate into sound judgement, respect for due process, and a commitment to advancing a common good rather than a personal factional interest.

11:02:36Yet, we are here subjected to today, uhm Madam Speaker, I think there's a caucus this side. May I be protected?

11:02:44Colleagues, can we please not do what we are doing?

11:02:52Thank you, Madam Speaker. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Uhm in public office, maturity must therefore translate into sound judgement, respect for due process, and a commitment to advancing the common good rather than personal or factional interest. Yet, what we are subjected to here today is, is the very opposite of maturity. This motion brought by the GLU, short-lived and unstable alliance, is nothing short of an exercise in confusion. It is wasteful, it is petty, and above all, it is childish. Such actions do not uplift this Council, nor do they serve the people of Johannesburg. Instead, they reinforce the already dangerously low levels of public trust in politicians and institutions. When residents witness uhm elected representatives engaging in theatrics rather than governance,

11:03:4445 seconds.

11:03:45they lose confidence not only on those members, but only on the democratic process itself. As the ACDP, we reject this motion for what it is. It's a distraction, it's a detour from real work of oversight, service delivery, and building public trust. We cannot afford to waste valuable time and resources on political point-scoring while our communities face pressing challenges: poverty, unemployment, service delivery backlogs, and declining infrastructure. Madam Speaker, the solution to this malaise lies uhm embracing servant leadership and ethical leadership across all caucuses in this Council. Servant leadership calls all of us to put the needs of our communities above personal ambition. It requires humility, integrity, and a willingness to lead by serving. Ethical

11:04:28Two seconds.

11:04:35Councillor Nkonyeni.

11:04:55Shalom. Greetings uh Madam Speaker, all protocols observed. I rise today in strong and unequivocal opposition to this baseless motion of no confidence against Councillor Edward. This motion is nothing more than a political stunt, and it, and it insults the integrity of this Council and the intelligence of the residents who are elected uh who we are elected to serve. Let us start with the facts. Madam Speaker, you yourself once held the position of MMC for Finance.

11:05:33the complexities of financial oversight and the dedication it demands. You know full well that the allegations underpinning this motion are not grounded in truth. For you to preside over a debate on a motion you know is baseless is deeply disappointing. Leadership requires courage to reject falsehood, not allow them to dictate Council business. And then we have Councillor Modupi, the proposer of this motion. Let me speak plainly. Councillor Modupi has hardly attended uh Finance Committee meetings. He has been absent when crucial decisions were debated and completely failed to attend the committee's strategic planning session. A councillor who has not participated in the oversight work of this committee now has the audacity to table a motion against the very Chairperson who has been doing the work that he has ignored. This is not leadership, it's hypocrisy of the highest order. Meanwhile, Councillor Edward, Councillor Edward has done what many others have failed to do, including the previous ANC Chairperson: deliver real measurable results for residents. Under her leadership, the committee has not only restored credibility, but has driven real progress. She established a billing desk, resolving over 2,000 escalated billing queries. Contrary to the false claim outlined in the premise of this ridiculous motion, Councillor Edward has written numerous letters to you, Madam Speaker, when you were the MMC of Finance, about late submission of reports. She also lamented about the late submission of reports time and time again, which you, Madam Speaker, on the 20th of November 2024, responded by saying that it is not your intention to delay Section 71 reports and that you would do your utmost best to bring them on time to Council. We have minutes to prove this. She introduced livestreaming to the community, to the, to the committee sittings, bringing transparency into practice and making sure residents could see their councillors at work. The very same livestream was stopped with absolutely no reason given.

11:07:29She opened the committee to the voices of residents, allowed them to present and participate directly in shaping decisions. She advocated for the, for the updating of credit control and supply chain policies. She personally conducted oversight visits to CAPEX projects, proving that leadership is about being present, not just talking. She spearheaded the monitoring of mSCOA implementation, which, by the way, was not done by the previous ANC Chairperson, to ensure stability in our financial systems. Colleagues, this is a record of courage, commitment, and competence, and yet, instead of celebrating these achievements, we are wasting time debating a motion built on lies, absenteeism, and petty politics. If Councillor Modupi had spent as much time attending committee meetings as he does drafting political attacks, he might have contributed something meaningful to this municipality.

11:08:20And Madam Speaker, allowing this motion to proceed despite your firsthand knowledge of its falsity is a disservice to the very residents who elected us. The people of this city uh expect us to stand for the truth. They expect us to back leaders who deliver results, not tear them down for cheap political points. Councillor Edward has earned not only our confidence, but the respect of every resident who has benefited from her tireless work. I urge every councillor here today to reject this motion, reject hypocrisy, reject false narratives. Let us show the people we serve that we are capable of recognising excellence and protecting those who work tirelessly for them. Thank you, Speaker.

11:09:04Bye, bye.

11:09:07Councillor Modupi.

11:09:15Yeah, Madam Speaker. I want to believe that uh this mic is not going to sabotage me now. Uh I have listened attentively uh on the debates uh on this motion which I have proposed. Madam Speaker, it is

11:09:40isiZuluHlala phansi wena, yini le okukhulunywa la?

11:09:42Councillors, can we switch off our mics? Use the mic behind you. Councillor Modupi, use the mic behind you.

11:09:53isiZuluUmuntu engathi aka-attend ama-meeting kahleni.

11:10:06Yeah, go there. Go there.

11:10:15Madam Speaker, it is very disheartening after listening to the debates on this motion which I have proposed.

11:10:25Some of us, we are ward councillors, we are not the PR councillors. Now, Madam Speaker, when we were not attending, we did submit our apologies because we were attending on matters of community, and if community members are watching now,

11:10:42Councillor Modupi.

11:10:43they know.

11:10:45Councillor Modupi.

11:10:46Can they stop howling?

11:10:47Councillor, can you just hold on? Councillors,

11:10:52councillors. We are listening to the councillor responding, right? Can we please

11:11:04behave? Because when you spoke, we listened. We listened, it was quiet. Allow the councillor. Councillor Modupi, you can carry on.

11:11:20What I like about our communities, they know that at some point we had to deal with difficult matters, uh running around to making sure that people get the indigent burials. And we did uh submit our apologies to that regard. However, what I want to debunk, uh Madam Speaker, is the fact that they are saying Councillor Mpumi was doing her level best, yet no one spoke against what I have said, that she unilaterally took decision on behalf of the committee without consulting the committee. Those are practices which we should not uphold as this Council, because we are a democratic institution. That is why this Council today should make sure that it passes that motion. Madam Speaker, I plead with this Council to pass the motion against Councillor Mpumi Edward. Thank you very much.

11:12:35Councillors, councillors. Councillor Mashala and the councillor next to you. No, no, no, we can't do that.

11:12:48And you don't want us to rule against you. Please don't.

Motion 2 vote result

11:12:58Do we agree to the item?

11:13:00Agreed!

11:13:05Councillors, those who abstain, can we see?

11:13:35Councillor, please.

11:14:12Councillor Belinda, Councillor Marumo, and Councillor Tefu. Hhayi. The triangle.

11:14:30You can drop. Can we have the noes?

11:15:44You may lower your hands. The yeses.

11:17:57You can lower your hands.

11:19:06Councillors, the results are as follows: Those who abstained were 58.

11:19:18Those who said no was 40. And those who said yes is 130.

11:19:27The motion is carried. I thank you.

Motion 3: No confidence in Public Safety Chair Cllr Wissler (proposal and debate)

11:20:00Councillors, we are now on item, sorry on motion three and that's the motion of a vote of no confidence against the Chairperson of Public Safety Committee, Councillor S. Wissler.

11:20:17Thank you. Councillors, can we have the proposer, Councillor T. Marumo.

11:20:30Councillor Raphadu.

11:20:39Revolutionary greetings to the Executive Mayor and his executive, councillors and Joburgers. I stand before this August House Speaker to present a notice of a motion of, a motion in terms of rule 94(1) of the standing rules of Council and orders of Council.

11:21:02A motion of a vote of no confidence against the Chairperson of Public Safety Committee, Councillor Wissler. Believing that the Chairperson of Public Safety Committee, Councillor Wissler has failed to lead the committee in a manner that guides it to be efficient and effective in its oversight role.

11:21:25The Chairperson of the Public Safety Committee, Councillor Wissler has failed to provide leadership to the committee, so as to ensure its smooth running. That being said, we have lost confidence in the Chairperson of Public Safety Committee, Councillor Wissler. Therefore, recommend that a motion of no, a motion of vote of no confidence against the Chairperson of Public Safety, Councillor S. Wissler be passed by Council.

11:21:53Upon the passing of this motion, the vacancy for the position of the Chairperson of Public Safety Committee be filled in accordance with Rule 24 of the standing rules of Council. I thank you.

11:22:07Thank you, Councillor Marumo. Are we agreeing to the motion?

11:22:13No.

11:22:16Okay, seconder, Councillor M. Cook.

11:22:21Thank you, Madam Speaker. I, Matthew Cook, hereby second the motion proposed by Councillor Marumo.

11:22:30Thank you, Councillor Cook. ACDP, Councillor C. Rohlssen.

11:22:40Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Greetings to you all.

11:22:44Can you please speak into the mic?

11:22:46Sorry, Madam Speaker, my apologies. Very warm greetings to you all in the precious name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Greetings, Madam Speaker, and greetings Executive Mayor, MMCs, councillors, distinguished guests, if there are still, yes, there are still some guests here, and residents of, amen, and residents of Johannesburg.

11:23:13Madam Speaker, I rise on motion three, the motion of a vote of no confidence against the Chairperson of the Public Safety Committee, Councillor S. Wissler. Madam Speaker, the ACDP would like to reiterate that the importance of service delivery, stability, accountability and communication via the excellence of reporting and...

11:23:44and we do not believe that the position of chairperson should be weaponized to settle political scores. Hence the ACDP will not support this motion. God bless South Africa. God bless the sovereign state of Israel. I thank you.

11:24:03Thank you, Councillor. Councillor Coutriers.

11:24:17Good evening, Madam Speaker. I rise today to speak not only in defense of the Chairperson, Councillor Sarah Wissler, but in defense of the integrity of this Council and the safety of our communities. Madam Speaker, the motion of no confidence brought against Councillor Wissler is not only unjustified, it is reckless.

11:24:41It threatens to derail the progress we have made in restoring law and order in our city and it undermines the very principles of ethical and effective governance. Since her appointment as Chairperson of the Public Safety Committee in February, Councillor Wissler has led with clarity, courage and commitment.

11:25:03Her leadership has delivered real measurable improvements in public safety all across Johannesburg. And let me just outline a few of her recent achievements, Madam Speaker. We speak about visible and responsive law enforcement. The Chairperson has worked closely with the JMPD and EMS services to increase visible policing in high-risk areas.

11:25:26This has led to a noticeable reduction in petty crime, and improved community confidence in law enforcement. She's also led joint operations with JMPD in Kensington. This done in April, Madam Chair, where Wissler led a joint operation with the finance committee in Kensington to address illegal businesses, drug activity and service delivery failures.

11:25:52The operation uncovered illegal electricity connections, water connections, illegally done across the entire length and breadth of the suburb. Spaza shops selling expired and unlabeled food items posing serious health risks. Also illegal taverns operating without liquor licenses or sanitation facilities, these were shut down.

11:26:17These interventions were not symbolic. They were decisive actions that protected lives and restored dignity to affected communities. What about the illegal scrapyards in 97? In Ward 97, Councillor Wissler supported the swift closure of unregulated scrapyards, which was linked to cable theft and stolen vehicles. This coordination with JMPD led to the demolishing, demolish

11:26:41demolition of illegal structures, the impoundment of a stolen Jeep and compliance notices issued to property owners. Speaker, we can carry on and on. We speak about revitalization of JMPD satellite offices. We speak about commitment, her commitment to community centered policing. Honourable Speaker, these are not the actions of a leader who has failed.

11:27:05These are the achievements of a chairperson who has delivered, who has fought for accountability, transparency, and the safety of our people. To pursue a motion of no confidence now, is to ignore this evidence. It is to prioritize political expediency over public service. It is to undermine the very progress we claim to support, and it will be obvious from the councillors that will vote in favor of the removal of Councillor Sarah Wissler that they do not honestly believe in ethical leadership.

11:27:35I urge this Council to reject the motion. Let us stand with leadership that works, let us stand with Sarah Wissler. On behalf of the sane minded residents in the city of our beloved Johannesburg, I thank you.

11:27:51Thank you, Councillor Coutriers. Councillor Marumo.

11:27:58Thank you very much, Speaker. With all due respect and respect for time, I hereby urge all councillors for the sake of Joburgers to support and ensure that we fast-track the removal of the Chairperson of Public Safety, Councillor Wissler. Thank you very much.

Motion 3 vote result

11:28:18Thank you so much. Can we put it to the vote? Those who abstain?

11:28:38There's no one.

11:30:13You can drop your hands, councillors. Can we see the yeses? Can put up one. Can put it

11:32:42You may put down your hand. Can we have the nos? Can we please not take our names home, neh? We had to cut names again this morning.

11:34:49You can drop your hand. Thank you.

11:35:06Colleagues, the councillors that abstained, 58. The nos are 40, and the yeses are 129. The item is carried. Thank you.

Announcements and closure

11:35:30Councillors, we are now on announcements and closure.

11:35:34Colleagues, we will by as early as tomorrow, send out a date for the next Council sitting where we will deal with the Chief Whip and other items. And yeah, I think that's where we are. Thank you very much. I know it's late, but thank you very much, all of you. Thank you. Bye. Drive safely. Drive safely.